Are there any exercises that anyone can suggest that I use that would help me get better at this? No matter how much I practice I just can't seem to get it right and I've been trying for years.
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Singing and playing...
- Thread starter hankazoid
- Start date
Take comfort - Singing and playing bass is not easy. Most of us don't do it with seeming effortlessness of McCartney, Geddy, or Sting. I still struggle with it and I've been doing it for 20 + years. This is probably one of the best tutorials I've seen anywhere.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173764&highlight=
BTW, where is your stumbling block. Is it remembering the words, or keeping the rhythm and meshing things together?
I have to go get B-fast, but will comment on your response when I see it.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173764&highlight=
BTW, where is your stumbling block. Is it remembering the words, or keeping the rhythm and meshing things together?
I have to go get B-fast, but will comment on your response when I see it.
Slowing it down and breaking it down phrase by phrase is probably a good first step. If you're having trouble with the singing part, learn the singing, and then add another activity with your hands, like tapping the rhythm you would be playing on the bass on your knee. If you can do those together, then play the bass part and sing that same bass part at the same time (in your own octave, of course). I've always found that having the instrumental part at a point where it is completely automatic is what allows me to control my singing. The majority of problems with singing and playing are rhythmic IME.
First I have to be able to play the bass line without thinking about it. Then I start blending in vocals until I can 'hear' both bass and my voice together. Rinse and repeat.
I've been doing it for a while and for around the past two years fronting the band.
+1 to knowing the bass part well.
Although even if you know it well, sometimes the vox just doesn't go along with bass part. If we're trying a song like this, I'll simplify the bass part to just following the guitar chords, pedaling the notes. That way you can find where in the measure the words fall. Once you have that down, you can add in the actual bass part.
+1 to knowing the bass part well.
Although even if you know it well, sometimes the vox just doesn't go along with bass part. If we're trying a song like this, I'll simplify the bass part to just following the guitar chords, pedaling the notes. That way you can find where in the measure the words fall. Once you have that down, you can add in the actual bass part.
Rickett Customs
Commercial User
Step 1: Find yourself a favorite bass of yours.
Step 2: learn the song that you intend to play. have a seat on the couch......
Step 3: Get relaxed with playing it. As you get more acclimated to playing said song,
give a shot to singing it, but do not try to focus on your playing.
Step 4: repeat step 3, until you feel you have started to play and sing clearly.
Other things you can try:
Watch TV and play for awhile, but do not focus on the playing, soon it will not be as necessary to focus on your playing. YMMV
Step 2: learn the song that you intend to play. have a seat on the couch......
Step 3: Get relaxed with playing it. As you get more acclimated to playing said song,
give a shot to singing it, but do not try to focus on your playing.
Step 4: repeat step 3, until you feel you have started to play and sing clearly.
Other things you can try:
Watch TV and play for awhile, but do not focus on the playing, soon it will not be as necessary to focus on your playing. YMMV
I think the primary obstacle to playign bass while singing is rhythmic:
You have to be able to execute 2 rhythms at once, the the bass part and the vocal line.
My favorite trick to deal with it is to put the bass down, and pratcice clapping the rhythm of the bass part while singing the vocal part.
Do it slowly and accurately at first.
Notice the spots where the vocal line matches up with the 'bass line' you are clapping
Pay special attention the spots where the vocals fall 'in between' the bass notes.
I have found that once I can clap the bass rhythm accurately while singing, It's pretty easy to grab the bass and play for real.
Actually singing well is another story
You have to be able to execute 2 rhythms at once, the the bass part and the vocal line.
My favorite trick to deal with it is to put the bass down, and pratcice clapping the rhythm of the bass part while singing the vocal part.
Do it slowly and accurately at first.
Notice the spots where the vocal line matches up with the 'bass line' you are clapping
Pay special attention the spots where the vocals fall 'in between' the bass notes.
I have found that once I can clap the bass rhythm accurately while singing, It's pretty easy to grab the bass and play for real.
Actually singing well is another story
I was the lead singer in the first band I ever played with when I was 15. The guys knew I played bass, but I'd never thought about doing both at the same time-and besides they had an electric bass player already. After the first gig they fired the bass player and told me I had to sing AND play bass so the $100 would go farther... I've always been the lead singer and bass player in most of the bands that I've played with ever since.
If you have a good voice you will almost surely get more work as a singing bassist-and although it requires a bit of work in the beginning it will become second nature after a while.
I mostly Sing/play jazz now, which does present some challenges but the way I approach it is to learn the bass line first, and then add the vocals after.
Simplify the bass part when you first start to perform it, and after a while the vocals will become so natural you'll be able to embellish your bass line more easily.
It's no harder than playing piano and singing-in fact it's a lot easier I would think-but just requires doing it. You'll get the hang of it fairly quickly.
If you have a good voice you will almost surely get more work as a singing bassist-and although it requires a bit of work in the beginning it will become second nature after a while.
I mostly Sing/play jazz now, which does present some challenges but the way I approach it is to learn the bass line first, and then add the vocals after.
Simplify the bass part when you first start to perform it, and after a while the vocals will become so natural you'll be able to embellish your bass line more easily.
It's no harder than playing piano and singing-in fact it's a lot easier I would think-but just requires doing it. You'll get the hang of it fairly quickly.
1. Simplify the bass line as much as possible, at least until you're comfortable with the lyrics and phrasing of the song. Let the rest of the rhythm section fill in as needed.
2. Start by singing ballads and simpler uptempo songs with repetative chord structures (straight 1-5-1, 1-4-5-1, or 1-4-1-5-1). Once you've convinced yourself you can sing and play at the same time, expand your horizons.
2. Start by singing ballads and simpler uptempo songs with repetative chord structures (straight 1-5-1, 1-4-5-1, or 1-4-1-5-1). Once you've convinced yourself you can sing and play at the same time, expand your horizons.
Cool. Thanks for all the good advice, folks.
Keeping the rhythm on easy songs is okay, but when I'm playing something that's a lot different than the melody... than I get screwed up. Also, getting the words to fall into place is tough for me. Another big obstacle is that I have a tendency to fall into singing the words to what I'm playing... that really screws me up.
This sounds like a great idea. I'll try it when I get home tonight.
Simplifying the bass line makes total sense too. I imagine as I get comfortable playing a song with a simple line that it'll be easier to take it from there. Thinking about it now, it all seems obvious.
Keeping the rhythm on easy songs is okay, but when I'm playing something that's a lot different than the melody... than I get screwed up. Also, getting the words to fall into place is tough for me. Another big obstacle is that I have a tendency to fall into singing the words to what I'm playing... that really screws me up.
I think the primary obstacle to playign bass while singing is rhythmic:
You have to be able to execute 2 rhythms at once, the the bass part and the vocal line.
My favorite trick to deal with it is to put the bass down, and pratcice clapping the rhythm of the bass part while singing the vocal part.
Do it slowly and accurately at first.
Notice the spots where the vocal line matches up with the 'bass line' you are clapping
Pay special attention the spots where the vocals fall 'in between' the bass notes.
I have found that once I can clap the bass rhythm accurately while singing, It's pretty easy to grab the bass and play for real.
Actually singing well is another story
This sounds like a great idea. I'll try it when I get home tonight.
Simplifying the bass line makes total sense too. I imagine as I get comfortable playing a song with a simple line that it'll be easier to take it from there. Thinking about it now, it all seems obvious.
After playing for 6 years and really struggling in the playing/singing area myself, during worship team practice last night it was like a light went off in my head or the like.
I found that I was actually singing a harmony line that was totally different than the bass line, yet able to still play the intricate fills I was doing at the same time!! My wife looked back at me with the "what has gotten into you" look and we both just smiled ear-to-ear! Talk about a HUGE moment in my playing/singing abilities!!!
Keep working on it as it will take some time but you CAN do it!!! I just kept plugging away...memorizing little bass lines and simple words then growing it.
I found that I was actually singing a harmony line that was totally different than the bass line, yet able to still play the intricate fills I was doing at the same time!! My wife looked back at me with the "what has gotten into you" look and we both just smiled ear-to-ear! Talk about a HUGE moment in my playing/singing abilities!!!
Keep working on it as it will take some time but you CAN do it!!! I just kept plugging away...memorizing little bass lines and simple words then growing it.
- Jul 8, 2009
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- A&R, Soulless Corporation Records
I would try writing it out on a master clef. It helps me synchronize them by seeing them as the same part.
Rickett Customs
Commercial User
Some kind of wonderful: Grand funk
She hates me: Puddle of mud
There's 2 that I can think of right now.
She hates me: Puddle of mud
There's 2 that I can think of right now.
Man I am currently doing bass/vocals for the second time in my life. It ain't easy for sure.
I have to beat the vocals into rhythmic shape so that the lyrics match up somehow, be it on the note, in between, etc. Sometimes I can play the riffs solidly and fluctuate my voice, others not. It's hard to think about both parts at the same time and listen to drums also. It's simple, but repetition is the only way to get it. Record yourself and listen to where you drag or miss. Isolate those phrases and just keep doing them. Slowing it down is excellent advice. Try lots of tunes that you like too. Another thing I'll try is to simplify the bass part until I can get the vocals to "fit". Then force myself to add the missing notes.
The other major problem is that my voice really SUCKS.
I have to beat the vocals into rhythmic shape so that the lyrics match up somehow, be it on the note, in between, etc. Sometimes I can play the riffs solidly and fluctuate my voice, others not. It's hard to think about both parts at the same time and listen to drums also. It's simple, but repetition is the only way to get it. Record yourself and listen to where you drag or miss. Isolate those phrases and just keep doing them. Slowing it down is excellent advice. Try lots of tunes that you like too. Another thing I'll try is to simplify the bass part until I can get the vocals to "fit". Then force myself to add the missing notes.
The other major problem is that my voice really SUCKS.
Plenty of people play very different parts on keyboards with their left & right hands. A lot of them sing on top of it. It's do-able, but takes lots of practice.
One or the other (bass or vocals) if not both, need to be down to the point you can do them on autopilot. Simplifying the part (either one) helps. Since you're already playing bass, you might want to make sure your playing is nailed down so well that you you don't have to think about it, & free up more of your brain for singing. One of the biggest keys for me was to learn how to play bass 100% without watching my hands. The visual attention that watching your hands takes distracts more of your mind than you might expect. Practice everything you know without watching, & learn everything new without watching your hands. Even if you never sing at all, it'll make you a much better player plus you can interact a lot better with audiences.
Good news: It is very possible to get to where you can improvise on the bass and vocally at the same time.
One or the other (bass or vocals) if not both, need to be down to the point you can do them on autopilot. Simplifying the part (either one) helps. Since you're already playing bass, you might want to make sure your playing is nailed down so well that you you don't have to think about it, & free up more of your brain for singing. One of the biggest keys for me was to learn how to play bass 100% without watching my hands. The visual attention that watching your hands takes distracts more of your mind than you might expect. Practice everything you know without watching, & learn everything new without watching your hands. Even if you never sing at all, it'll make you a much better player plus you can interact a lot better with audiences.
Good news: It is very possible to get to where you can improvise on the bass and vocally at the same time.
+1 on this, and take it as far as Les Claypool did, he practiced Tommy the Cat's main line while watching tv and basically doing other things to have the muscle motion so second nature and auto-magic that he could easily sing and play the part live.
Ken
When it comes to singing covers - I pick the material carefully. I have maybe 3 or 4 different grooves I'm comfortable singing over and that presents a real big bunch of material to work with.
I am not at all shy about changing a song up a little so I can sing and play it. I consider that most folks watching would rather hear me nail the vocal so if it's a tough one, I might be dumming down the bass line and letting the drummer or guitarist carry more of the load in certain sections. If it doesn't sound exactly like the record - I could care less and it seems that the audience doesn't care more than that ... obviously there are limits to that but making a song your own is something of a tradition...
It seems that it's real differnt for everybody but I need to be comfortable with the vocal line prior to adding the bass in.
So find a groove you're comfortable with and start mining for tunes that adapt in ...
I am not at all shy about changing a song up a little so I can sing and play it. I consider that most folks watching would rather hear me nail the vocal so if it's a tough one, I might be dumming down the bass line and letting the drummer or guitarist carry more of the load in certain sections. If it doesn't sound exactly like the record - I could care less and it seems that the audience doesn't care more than that ... obviously there are limits to that but making a song your own is something of a tradition...
It seems that it's real differnt for everybody but I need to be comfortable with the vocal line prior to adding the bass in.
So find a groove you're comfortable with and start mining for tunes that adapt in ...
I think the primary obstacle to playign bass while singing is rhythmic:
You have to be able to execute 2 rhythms at once, the the bass part and the vocal line.
My favorite trick to deal with it is to put the bass down, and pratcice clapping the rhythm of the bass part while singing the vocal part.
Do it slowly and accurately at first.
Notice the spots where the vocal line matches up with the 'bass line' you are clapping
Pay special attention the spots where the vocals fall 'in between' the bass notes.
I have found that once I can clap the bass rhythm accurately while singing, It's pretty easy to grab the bass and play for real.
Actually singing well is another story
I do this in the car on the way to and from work and it helps a lot. One hand on the wheel and the other hand plucking strings on the arm rest while singing full force. It kills the time and I get practice in too. I will also disect the song part by part and just practice the smaller parts over and over until I can string them together. Good luck man.
