Six string spalted maple, fretless, and first build ... kit

[eightyearsapril]

It sure did sand smooth, but ... it's ruined.

I'm not sure why, but when I went to sand it this morning, the white residue (glue that wasn't completely dry?) ended up smearing all over the fingerboard. No pictures but trust me, it's ruined. I tried sanding back the glue with 100 grit and just spread the white residue further.

Maybe I didn't let it cure long enough. Maybe I didn't wait long enough for each coat to dry yesterday. Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing.

I really don't know what to do next. This was supposed to be my last test before actually working on the kit's neck, and I'm afraid to do that now. Maybe order another test fingerboard? Maybe contract this out to someone? Maybe replace the fingerboard on the neck with a different fingerboard?

In other (happier) news, Graphtech's support rocks. I had ordered a Black Tusq nut, pre-slotted, in the event I wanted to replace the nut on the neck, and they accidentally sent me a pre-slotted 12-string guitar neck. I'm not sure if I ordered the wrong part, or it got entered wrong on their system, but they're sending me the correct nut without charge.

 

[Toban.Ivan]

No things come easy the first time. You're just so wisely/brave in trying this procedure on a try-piece.
Many done it several times and most of them describe it with terror.

Regarding the real deal in you're place I will try furthers experiments on more crap parts but it all depend about the dead-line you're wanting to respect.

In my little knowing of CA glues (from modelling) the winter isn't exactly the perfectly season but this must be true here in north Italy with an average humidity of 80%. Don't know the meteo situation there but several things may influence CA glues.

Give your self another chance before commissioning the job.

 

[lbridenstine]

Nothing is ever really ruined here. We just have to find out how to fix things!

Post pictures. It might just be that you need to sand up through the grits, maybe it needs to cure more, maybe you'll need to sand it off and start again, but I doubt you'd need to replace the whole fingerboard.

 

[Hopkins]

Nothing is ever really ruined here. We just have to find out how to fix things!

Post pictures. It might just be that you need to sand up through the grits, maybe it needs to cure more, maybe you'll need to sand it off and start again, but I doubt you'd need to replace the whole fingerboard.

Right, there is no such thing as ruined as far as finishing goes. My guess is that the top layer flashed off before the layers under it completely dried, causing a gummy half dried layer under a hard surface. Give it a day or so to dry and sand it off.

 

[eightyearsapril]

In my little knowing of CA glues (from modelling) the winter isn't exactly the perfectly season but this must be true here in north Italy with an average humidity of 80%. Don't know the meteo situation there but several things may influence CA glues.

Give your self another chance before commissioning the job.

Yeah, it's cold and dry here, and that definitely came into play with the curing of the glue.

Nothing is ever really ruined here. We just have to find out how to fix things!

Post pictures. It might just be that you need to sand up through the grits, maybe it needs to cure more, maybe you'll need to sand it off and start again, but I doubt you'd need to replace the whole fingerboard.

I'll post a picture tomorrow, when I can take one in daylight.

Fortunately, this isn't the final fingerboard for the kit; it's one I bought for testing veneer applying from LMII. The actual fingerboard is on the neck, waiting for work.

Right, there is no such thing as ruined as far as finishing goes. My guess is that the top layer flashed off before the layers under it completely dried, causing a gummy half dried layer under a hard surface. Give it a day or so to dry and sand it off.

That's probably the case. My wife thinks that I overcompensated for not getting enough coverage of the glue on each coat, and tended to overdo the coating in my impatience. She's probably right. She also suggested dividing-and-conquering by gluing several frets at a time, ensuring a good coat in that area before moving on, but I'm concerned that the overlap may not be seamless.

To cheer myself up, I did some retail therapy tonight. I bought an Ibanez SR805AWT. A few years back, I had a beautiful SR500PB that was stolen from me. This replaces it and puts some poplar burl back in my life. To fund this, I'm going to sell a few of my other basses, including the Brice five-string model in my avatar, and the older Ibanez fretless that this one I'm building will replace.

Thanks for the support, everyone.

 

[Hopkins]

I have seen fingerboards coated with CA that have turned out beautiful, but every time I have layed down a coat of CA glue that I would consider thick enough to be a finish it has blushed, turning white. If you lay it on thin enough for this not to happen, it would be difficult to not sand through into an underlying layer leaving a witness line when polished. That combined with the fact that the vapors burn my eyes, I would choose a different finish. As much as I dislike working with it, Epoxy is probably a better alternative.

 

[eightyearsapril]

I have seen fingerboards coated with CA that have turned out beautiful, but every time I have layed down a coat of CA glue that I would consider thick enough to be a finish it has blushed, turning white. If you lay it on thin enough for this not to happen, it would be difficult to not sand through into an underlying layer leaving a witness line when polished. That combined with the fact that the vapors burn my eyes, I would choose a different finish. As much as I dislike working with it, Epoxy is probably a better alternative.

I tested with epoxy, and the smell of it, as well as the unevenness of the application, led me back towards CA glue. Earlier in the thread I did post an epoxy that worked well, so maybe I'll try it again, but I think just a few layers of CA glue (<5) will be enough, as I will probably only use flats on the bass. I wanted to coat it to protect the colored fretline inlays, as well as give me the option to use something other than flatwound strings.

 

[eightyearsapril]

Okay, here are the pictures. You can see how my attempts to sand off the white residue on the left (before sanding, after letting the CA glue cure overnight) merely spread out the residue via sanding (the right picture was taken this morning, a day after sanding).

Original images (full-size) in the below thumbnails.

 

[Big B.]

If you don't mind I'll offer some advice about CA coating a fretless board. I've done this on most of my fretless basses and get a glassy polished finish. The biggest problem you are having is you are applying it much too thickly. I generally apply between 12-15 very thin coats. I'll apply a nice bead of glue down each side of the fingerboard and quickly use a paper towel to spread it across the fingerboard. Make sure to use paper towels and not a rag as cotton and CA react badly and can burn you. Also make sure to use a fresh paper towel for each coat. You should be leaving a wet surface but no puddles of glue, as if you had wiped the fingerboard with a wet rag. If you see any built up glue be sure to wipe off the excess before it can dry. Its a lot easier than sanding it off after it dries. The first few coats will be uneven as the glue soaks into the wood but after about 5 coats you should have a nice film built up.

After 5 coats I like to use a high grit sandpaper to smooth out the surface. I'll then add 5 more coats and resand. after 10-15 coats you can wetsand the board and then polish it up to whatever sheen you want. That seems like a lot of work but the glue dries so quickly when spread that thinly that you can easily apply a coat every 10 minutes or so. I would expect one small tube to equal one coat so I usually buy three 5 packs per bass. As to witness lines between coats, it's not an issue that I've had.

My second concern would be the gorilla super glue. I may be wrong but I think the gorilla CA glue has a rubbery additive to allow the glue some elasticity. This would be great in a high stress application but really bad for a hard coating. I find the best glues for coating a board are the cheaper glues that come in the small foil tubes. I generally use the Super Glue brand 5 packs at Lowe's but I've had equally good results with glue from the dollar tree.

I hope this advice helps. I'd refer you to one of my old build threads but for some reason my photos aren't showing up and I've been too lazy to figure out why.

 

[Harry Cahyadi]

I tested with epoxy, and the smell of it, as well as the unevenness of the application, led me back towards CA glue. Earlier in the thread I did post an epoxy that worked well, so maybe I'll try it again, but I think just a few layers of CA glue (<5) will be enough, as I will probably only use flats on the bass. I wanted to coat it to protect the colored fretline inlays, as well as give me the option to use something other than flatwound strings.

Don't use those syringe kind of epoxies. I used one of those before and it has never hardened properly. Use the one that comes in 2 bottles, the resin and hardener. Usually the way to apply it is to pour it on to the surface (or can be brushed on for thinner layer).

I have used those kind of epoxies for filling up burl voids. The end result is super rock hard and quite abrasive resistant, which could be good and bad.

All the best.

 

[Hopkins]

If you don't mind I'll offer some advice about CA coating a fretless board. I've do this on most of my fretless basses and get a glassy polished finish. The biggest problem you are having is you are applying it much too thickly. I generally apply between 12-15 very thin coats. I'll apply a nice bead of glue down each side of the fingerboard and quickly use a paper towel to spread it across the fingerboard. Make sure to use paper towels and not a rag as cotton and CA react badly and can burn you. Also make sure to use a fresh paper towel for each coat. You should be leaving a wet surface but no puddles of glue, as if you had wiped the fingerboard with a wet rag. If you see any built up glue be sure to wipe off the excess before it can dry. Its a lot easier than sanding it off after it dries. The first few coats will be uneven as the glue soaks into the wood but after about 5 coats you should have a nice film built up.

After 5 coats I like to use a high grit sandpaper to smooth out the surface. I'll then add 5 more coats and resand. after 10-15 coats you can wetsand the board and then polish it up to whatever sheen you want. That seems like a lot of work but the glue dries so quickly when spread that thinly that you can easily apply a coat every 10 minutes or so. I would expect one small tube to equal one coat so I usually buy three 5 packs per bass. As to witness lines between coats, it's not an issue that I've had.

My second concern would be the gorilla super glue. I may be wrong but I think the gorilla CA glue has a rubbery additive to allow the glue some elasticity. This would be great in a high stress application but really bad for a hard coating. I find the best glues for coating a board are the cheaper glues that come in the small foil tubes. I generally use the Super Glue brand 5 packs at Lowe's but I've had equally good results with glue from the dollar tree.

I hope this advice helps. I'd refer you to one of my old build threads but for some reason my photos aren't showing up and I've been to lazy to figure out why.

There ya go OP, the man has spoken

How have you been Brandon, its been a while

 

[eightyearsapril]

If you don't mind I'll offer some advice about CA coating a fretless board.

Wow, thanks! I wish I'd known all this weeks ago. Everything you said makes complete sense. I thought the Gorilla CA Glue was too good to be true, and I'll not use it again. I bought a five pack of the little tubes you mentioned a while back; I checked, I still have two left.

One question: By "high-grit sandpaper" do you mean 400-600, or higher?

I used acetone to clean off the glue from the test board. It looks better, but not quite perfect. I'll do another wipe with acetone before trying Big B.'s method.

​

You can see, however, that the thinner .3mm veneer is just too thin to look good.

Don't use those syringe kind of epoxies. I used one of those before and it has never hardened properly. Use the one that comes in 2 bottles, the resin and hardener. Usually the way to apply it is to pour it on to the surface (or can be brushed on for thinner layer).

Ok, I understand. I bought a two bottle set from StewMac earlier for testing inlay hole filling and I'm not sure I feel comfortable using it for coating a fingerboard.

 

[Big B.]

Hopkins, I've been good but super busy getting life in Austin nailed down. Good news is I'm working on finishing a few guitars soon and I've been planning to become more active in the LC again now that things have settled down.

As far as sanding between coats goes, it's pretty much the equivalent of sanding between finish coats. I think 320 or 400 grit would be about right. It's just to remove any rough buildup to ease sanding at the end.

 

[Hopkins]

Hopkins, I've been good but super busy getting life in Austin nailed down. Good news is I'm working on finishing a few guitars soon and I've been planning to become more active in the LC again now that things have settled down.

So how are you liking the great city of blue floating in a sea of red?

 

[eightyearsapril]

It's been a few weeks, so updates are in order:

@Big B. and his method solved my glueing concerns, however, I had a horrible allergic reaction to using CA glue in an unventilated place. That was my fault, and now that the weather is better, I'll be able to open some windows to provide more airflow.

I don't have any good photos of the finished test board, but using many coats, mixing the thin and medium glue, with enough curing time, and acetone wipes after sanding, and then sanding some more, got me a very smooth board.

I also started figuring out the 8th fret design. I won't call it an inlay, as it's going to be a waterslide decal. The test I printed on plain printer paper is a little too big, and I need to decide if it'll be blue or green, but I like the concept:

What's the concept, you ask? Well, I'm naming the bass Zhenya, after my wife's name in Russian. Zhe is the eighth letter of the Cyrillic alphabet, so I thought the Zhe letter logo, matching the style of the headstock logo of my, ahem, brand, would be perfect.

I got the idea a while back when there was a thread about inlay dots mistakenly placed on the 23rd fret. I wanted some way to put the bass's name on it, as the headstock is going to be rather crowded with six tuners and the "brand" logo.

We (my wife is handling the back of the neck staining, in addition to the veneer glueing) also tested the walnut stain on the actual neck:

(That's an in progress shot of the first coat, after application and before wiping. It's the only picture I have of this testing so far.)

The third coat is curing overnight, and it looks pretty good. The inner maple string took the stain differently than the outer strings, and the walnut stain did wonders to the mahogany, as well. I'll post a picture in daylight tomorrow of the result.

I haven't touched the body in a few weeks. I really need to figure out how I'm going to handle the two 9V batteries. One should fit in the control cavity, I think, but two won't.

I sold my only (built) fretless bass the other day, so there's more urgency to finish Zhenya. I auditioned for a band last night with my new Ibanez SR805, but I want Zhenya to be my go-to if I join this band, as the added range of a C string, and a fretless neck would be ideal for the band.

 

[eightyearsapril]

Here's the result of the walnut stain on the neck:

I'll have to do a better job of taping, as there was quite a lot of stain that bled under the tape, but I'm otherwise happy with this.

 

[Harry Cahyadi]

I'll have to do a better job of taping, as there was quite a lot of stain that bled under the tape, but I'm otherwise happy with this.

I don't think taping alone will do it.

Please see this post
Ash, Flame Maple, Rosewood 4-String PJ Build | Page 2 | TalkBass.com

You certainly don't want it to happen to your neck.

I think the next post after that is what you should do.

 

[eightyearsapril]

I think the next post after that is what you should do.

Thanks. I haven't decided to do the top work on the neck first (fingerboard work, including the CA glue sealing) or the back (walnut stain/seal with tung oil). Ditto for the body (Minwax Island Water blue stain with Tru Oil on top/walnut stain with tung oil on the back). I'll think of the pros and cons and decide.

 

[eightyearsapril]

Beautiful day today. Rain ended, sun was shining. I even tilted the sunroof open at lunchtime. I turned the heat off in our apartment for the first time since November. I really wanted to get some work done tonight.

Unsure as to whether to do the top or back of the neck, first, I decided to work on something easy. I went through my supply of abalone dots (I bought a second set from LMII when I ordered the thinner veneers a few weeks ago), and picked out the best twelve for the inlay dots.

I put a drop of glue in the third fret dot, and tried fitting the 6mm inlay dot, but it was a little too big. It'll take me just a few minutes to enlarge the hole slightly with a 1/4" Forstner bit, but I was frustrated and decided to wait to do that tomorrow. I need to wait for the single drop of glue I put down to dry, anyway.

 

[eightyearsapril]

Good progress today:

I used my Dremel to sand out more room for the pickups and in the control cavity. I'll definitely be able to fit one battery in with the Flexcore preamp.

I also expanded the fretboard inlay dots and glued in the abalone dots.

However, my drilling wasn't precise. One dot, the left at the 12th fret, is a little too high, and quite a few are too deep. I know from my last bit of testing that too high might not be a problem, and that a little too low definitely won't be, as the glue coating will correct most of those mistakes. But, I think the too high dot is not going to be covered entirely by the glue, and that the too low ones are in the hole too deeply to look good.

I wonder if I should try drilling out the problem dots and finding a way to raise the floor of the drilled holes to make the dots more flush. Any advice/suggestions?