Skill levels as a player

[BSatt]

“…The pros seem to do it all, with little or no effort and are paid well to do it.…”

They lost me when they mentioned money. I’ve known people who I wouldn’t call a musician but are paid an embarrassing amount of money…and Ive know people who are unbelievably talented and spent years honing their craft and yet are paid (and treated) like dirt.

 

[LBS-bass]

That is how I think about it as well. I don't rank myself so I can put it on my website or resume, more to figure out how far I have to go, or what I have to offer to others. I am a professor (not in music).

I find myself thinking about this more and more (in a somewhat more abstract way; never really thought to put names to categories) because even though I am not a music teacher, I'm being asked more often to do some coaching (for lack of a better term) by other players here in the area. So I've started to think more about how to assess their skills and figure out what they need to know in order to help them achieve their goals.

I'm by no means an expert player; by my own categories I'd put myself somewhere near the advanced category, though I have severe technical limitations. Some of them are things I can work on, and some are probably beyond my body's capacity to change. But it also helps me to know what to look for in other players as I move into new opportunities and figure out which situations are going to challenge me.

 

[Basslice]

I find myself thinking about this more and more (in a somewhat more abstract way; never really thought to put names to categories) because even though I am not a music teacher, I'm being asked more often to do some coaching (for lack of a better term) by other players here in the area. So I've started to think more about how to assess their skills and figure out what they need to know in order to help them achieve their goals.

I'm by no means an expert player; by my own categories I'd put myself somewhere near the advanced category, though I have severe technical limitations. Some of them are things I can work on, and some are probably beyond my body's capacity to change. But it also helps me to know what to look for in other players as I move into new opportunities and figure out which situations are going to challenge me.

I am my worse critic and never think too much of my own skills. However, several people have suggested that I actually offer lessons! Go figure.

 

[40Hz]

I don’t pay a lot of attention to academics in general. Or the ranking and classification systems they have a habit of trotting out at a moment’s notice.

But I don’t have to earn a living teaching classes, grading performance, or assessing a student’s current level of ability in order to plan a curriculum for them either. So their world and approach to things is very different than mine.

 

[40Hz]

I am my worse critic and never think too much of my own skills. However, several people have suggested that I actually offer lessons! Go figure.

It happens. I’ve been told I’m an excellent teacher. Which always stuck me as weird considering I can’t recall ever having tried to teach anybody anything.

 

[G On Bass]

Honestly, I have a little from each of your categories except beginner. I know each string name but not necessarily where each note is on the neck. I kinda know 'patterns' on the neck, even though I could not tell you what note I'm playing without having to stop and figure it out. I can't read music, don't know much theory to speak of but I can jam and come up with (usually) intersting bass lines on the fly. I play by ear, but can play along with tabs as a starting point when I'm pressed for time learning songs, even though I find 90% of the tabs online are not exactly what is being played (see that last bit about playing by ear). That being said, I don't do it for a living, though I have held my own in multiple projects of different genres with people that do. I have found that I am better than some who do it for a living, worse than some who don't and care exactly zero where I fall in that range.

 

[jamro217]

According to the Berklee definition I'm a Jazz/Rock (there should be a category for "Street Fusion") Street player. The responsibility of providing a steady income for my family meant employment outside of the music industry. The resulting time constraints stunted my musical education. Upon retirement the plan is to reverse this. Never give up.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Just read an article published by a Berklee teacher that attempts to define players levels or types (Bass Players: How to Practice Bass Guitar Effectively – Berklee Online Take Note)

How would you define levels and the skills at that level? I’m swagging here…..these are MY definitions…

Early Beginner-Doesn’t really know how to hold or tune the instrument

Beginner-Can tune with a tuner, hold the instrument properly and has a rudimentary understanding of the instrument, can play a few simple songs

Intermediate-The hardest classification, knows each string name, can tune by ear, can play some songs and can compose simple bass lines?

Craftsman or Journeyman-Understands music theory at a simple level, has a good grasp of notes on the neck, can jam on songs while composing a bass line

Advanced-Understands complex music theory concepts, can compose bass lines for jazz type songs, can read tab or notes comfortably

Super Advanced-Can read music at speed, can compose complex bass lines at high speed

I think it’s pretty difficult to pigeon hole players this way. Kind of hard splitting advanced and super advance with the main difference being the speed of your work. The main difference between a craftsman and advanced being the ability to read music.

 

[themickster]

I'd be happy to know that folk like my songs enough to go down the frog and toad to the rub a dub and watch.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think it’s pretty difficult to pigeon hole players this way. Kind of hard splitting advanced and super advance with the main difference being the speed of your work. The main difference between a craftsman and advanced being the ability to read music.

I would agree. Some players manage to get pretty far advanced without a ton of formal instruction, while some very well-educated players never develop what is needed to get away from the notation or improvise. It's tough to qualify based on those kinds of parameters because you have different kinds of learners.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I'll add a category...

Super-advanced (imaginary) - the player that thinks they are much better than they really are and likes to tell others what they are doing wrong. This category often applies to guitarists

 

[micguy]

I've listened to a lot of interviews with old studio pros lately. A lot of them don't/never did read music, yet they're tops at their craft. Several of them said "when they needed someone who could read, they called Tommy Tedesco" - the point being, there is room at the top for all sorts of different players with different kinds of talents.

There are also folks who are tops in very different genres, each of which demand different things. The best speed metal guys probably don't use a lot of theory, but can play certain things like the Dickens. The jazz guys mostly are theory monsters, but probably can't djent worth a damn. Drop them in each others' gigs, and they'll both look like complete hacks.

There are advanced players (and players of other levels) with very different skill sets - you can't put things into tidy categories. It's more complicated and nuanced than that.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I learned on a Silvertone so I guess that makes me a Sears Craftsman.

*Can find my way to a gig.

*Bravado-fueled, little discernible talent.

*Extensively networked. Not the hottest chops but I'm available.

Riis

 

[Bunk McNulty]

If you were teaching, it would be good to be able to figure out what your students need. It's not really a matter of judgment to me, it's more a matter of figuring out things that might be useful either to me or to others. I know which players I fit in with in this hierarchy, and I know how I can help some folks who ask me for assistance.

I’m, um, less evolved. I mean, I can’t imagine being a teacher or leader.

 

[AncientNoob]

Honestly, I have a little from each of your categories except beginner. I know each string name but not necessarily where each note is on the neck. I kinda know 'patterns' on the neck, even though I could not tell you what note I'm playing without having to stop and figure it out. I can't read music, don't know much theory to speak of but I can jam and come up with (usually) intersting bass lines on the fly. I play by ear, but can play along with tabs as a starting point when I'm pressed for time learning songs, even though I find 90% of the tabs online are not exactly what is being played (see that last bit about playing by ear). That being said, I don't do it for a living, though I have held my own in multiple projects of different genres with people that do. I have found that I am better than some who do it for a living, worse than some who don't and care exactly zero where I fall in that range.

I agree with this 100%. And I’d like to think I’m right there on the same level. If I’m being honest, I’m probably not half as good as I think I should be, but way better than i give myself credit for.

 

[SixtyCycleHum]

Just read an article published by a Berklee teacher that attempts to define players levels or types (Bass Players: How to Practice Bass Guitar Effectively – Berklee Online Take Note)

How would you define levels and the skills at that level? I’m swagging here…..these are MY definitions…

Early Beginner-Doesn’t really know how to hold or tune the instrument

Beginner-Can tune with a tuner, hold the instrument properly and has a rudimentary understanding of the instrument, can play a few simple songs

Intermediate-The hardest classification, knows each string name, can tune by ear, can play some songs and can compose simple bass lines?

Craftsman or Journeyman-Understands music theory at a simple level, has a good grasp of notes on the neck, can jam on songs while composing a bass line

Advanced-Understands complex music theory concepts, can compose bass lines for jazz type songs, can read tab or notes comfortably

Super Advanced-Can read music at speed, can compose complex bass lines at high speed

No lie. I would class myself somewhere between craftsman/journeyman and advanced with some super advanced attributes (can sight read music).
Yet I do NOT have close to perfect pitch and need a tuner.

 

[SixtyCycleHum]

Here Are My Own Groupings (based on my own progress and watching many others):

Beginner: Can tune their own bass, holds the instrument properly. Is learning finger/picking, can play major scales, can play along with simple songs.

Advanced Beginner: Practices scales and modes, starts to read, understands theory in terms of keys, I,II, II, IV, V, VI, VII - octaves. Can learn more complex songs. Begins to understand tone. Working on timing.

Intermediate: Can play with others. Develops trust in their ear - i.e. understands when things are going wrong in a performance (time/key/changes). Can play more types of songs, can compose if they want to. Can read and follow a chart, improving sight reading.

Advanced: Continues to develop all of the things listed as intermediate. There is no clear differentiation as you become advanced. Can control tone and dynamics with hands. Has mastered their playing technique. Understands complex music theory concepts, can play many types of phrases and arpeggios. Can read and converse musical terms comfortably.

Super Advanced: Can read music at speed. Can improvise most anything. Not limited by genre.

This.

 

[lancimouspitt]

I have a lot of muscle memory with a few random strokes of divine genius sprinkled throughout my 20 years of playing.
The rest is making a lot of mistakes to play perfect once.

I travel freely throughout the beginner and advanced realms like I wonder throughout the mall as my wife shops.

 

[dave hope]

Just read an article published by a Berklee teacher that attempts to define players levels or types (Bass Players: How to Practice Bass Guitar Effectively – Berklee Online Take Note)

How would you define levels and the skills at that level? I’m swagging here…..these are MY definitions…

Early Beginner-Doesn’t really know how to hold or tune the instrument

Beginner-Can tune with a tuner, hold the instrument properly and has a rudimentary understanding of the instrument, can play a few simple songs

Intermediate-The hardest classification, knows each string name, can tune by ear, can play some songs and can compose simple bass lines?

Craftsman or Journeyman-Understands music theory at a simple level, has a good grasp of notes on the neck, can jam on songs while composing a bass line

Advanced-Understands complex music theory concepts, can compose bass lines for jazz type songs, can read tab or notes comfortably

Super Advanced-Can read music at speed, can compose complex bass lines at high speed

I would put your craftsman, advanced and super advanced under one definition:
Those who can actually earn a living being a musician. Now that’s who’s got my attention

 

[honeydorick]

50 years ago,I started out as a self taught dynamic drummer.Timing and feel came naturally.It was a gift from my dad.He could play anything by ear.I play by ear,and can hold my own jamming in most types of music.Im now studying and enjoying learning theory and learning all I can about Bass.I love the Instrument.My ist of only 4 bass lessons in my life 30 years ago was how to play a 12 bar blues progression.Once I understood the mechanics of that ,my ears & fingers took over.The simplicity of blues scales were great for learning basic Rock & R&B.I already have the gift of hearing and feeling the music.Now Im excited to take it a step further,and learn more about theory,reading & writing/circle of 5ths,Minor keys that kind of stuff.I feel that will only help me understand what I love about music more.I had fun playing music before I learned about notes & keys.LOL.I had fun first with a little help from 4 simple lessons.My hand positions & the way I play is not what a teacher would teach a new student.But At 68 im ok with that,as long as I can hear that beautifull grove being played by my hands on my bass with other great musicians.There is allways room for improvement on technique,I have some carple tunnel in my fretting hand and a torn rotator cuff on my right shoulder,plucking hand arm.But that has little effect because I play short scale basses,& sit when i play to help with my phisical problems.I use flatt wound strings for the Jamersn sound,& zero frett buzz.I slide in & out of positions alot, but I have learned how to control my sound dynamics very well so Im ok with that.I never stop learning.As for skill level,I would say there is no decisive measuring stick for people like me.But teachers need something to judge by for the sake of students.All I know.is,Music keeps me sane in these troubling times.Thanks TB