Skill levels as a player

[Bunk McNulty]

My hand positions & the way I play is not what a teacher would teach a new student.

Me, either. As we say, down home, "Your left hand is what you know. Your right hand is who you are."

 

[Bonafide]

The nature of the definition game is very incomplete by default. One real-time observation is many 'professionals' in their private life fall between super advanced and advanced beginner depending on the challenge at hand or what skill set they are developing. As it should be... "People are rewarded in public for what they have practiced for years in private"

 

[asparaguspee]

Intermediate whoohoo!

 

[slagheap]

i don't know from levels, but i have unbounded respect for those few who scan a complex page or pages of notation, make a few mental notes, and then more or less flawlessly rip through it. that is a rare skill.

 

[lermgalieu]

I don’t think about such things. I just try to get better when I can.

 

[Durham52]

Academics who's livelihood depends on being able to define a set of goals to achieve a judgable and scorable level of achievement need parameters such as these, as do the institutions making money from offering tutelage and qualifications based on a syllabus.

Whether the people exiting these establishments have the ability to produce any music that is unique, inventive, joyful, inspirational, or simply just plain good fun, remains beyond the scope of their training. It's the same with most qualifications, everyone with an art school qualification, won't necessarily be a great artist, or every one who passes a bar exam, prove to be a good lawyer, or every intern turns out to be a great doctor.

I have nothing against structured music study, reading music, (I was taught to read music as a kid) or advanced study of music theory, but having those skills isn't of itself a gauge of anything other than technical ability and the retention of imparted facts. And there's more to music than just technical ability and remembering what someone else deemed the most important things for you to know.

 

[LBS-bass]

Whether the people exiting these establishments have the ability to produce any music that is unique, inventive, joyful, inspirational, or simply just plain good fun, remains beyond the scope of their training.

In my categorizations, I try to address this with the concept of internalization, because I personally don't believe anyone can be anything other than a highly skilled technician if they are not internalizing the music and developing the ear.

This is controversial, but I think even at what most would consider the expert level you will find many technicians who can't move away from notation. I don't think that's expert. That's technically highly proficient, but if you're not getting it from the inside out, you aren't really there. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

I can compose and play complex bass lines but have very basic knowledge of music theory. I can read and understand time signatures better than notation.
Not sure where that would put my skill level.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

One more thing to add here; Billy Sheehan only knows three scales: Major, minor, and pentatonic.

 

[MarMar]

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Me, either. As we say, down home, "Your left hand is what you know. Your right hand is who you are."

So as I'm left handed, does that mean I know who I are?

 

[Bunk McNulty]

So as I'm left handed, does that mean I know who I are?

Yes. It is a saying from the Olden Times.

 

[Ostie]

I’m a Craftsman, just like my lawn mower. I start every time and I get the job done.

 

[DeltaTango]

I thought this information from a past post by Mr. John Goldsby was so informative.

Hi Tom, When I audition players for either a college-level program (like where I currently teach at the Conservatorium Maastricht), or for a couple-of-day to week-long workshop, I have to quickly assess where their general level of knowledge and competency lies. Below are some general guidelines I use for auditioning jazz players.

Without going into great detail, here are a few things I look and listen for:

Beginner: Maybe knows a few major scales, but not all 12 scales. Maybe knows a few triad arpeggios in one octave, but not all over the bass. Might know major, minor, and dominant 7th arpeggios—but probably not. Might know a couple of basic jazz forms, like a blues. This player probably does not understand basic chord progressions, like V-I or ii-V-I or the cycle of 5ths. Needs to look at a chord chart for everything. These players usually have a limited knowledge of classic jazz recordings, historically-important bassists. They might have had some experience with a teacher or in a school band. At the Aebersold workshops, we have a pre-beginner level that could be described as "Novice." These are players who might have recently gotten an instrument, or recently decided they want to learn the bass, and they are still searching for notes. So, even the beginners can be divided into levels of knowledge and experience.

Intermediate: Knows all 12 major scales, at least in one octave. Can play major and minor triads, and major, minor, dominant-seventh arpeggios around the bass. Can walk bass lines on blues and other basic tunes. Knows (at least) a couple of chord progressions from memory. This player understands a ii-V-I in major, and has a grasp of the cycle of 5ths. They can play blues in (at least) Bb and F, and they can play a basic bass line on standard jazz tunes. The next big question mark for me is whether they understand and can play a ii-V-I in minor. How do they play "Autumn Leaves," "Softly as in a Morning Sunrise," "Summertime"? If they can really outline these sounds, then I'd say they are at least an intermediate level player. If not, then they are an "advanced beginner." If I realize, that they know these types of tunes, then I ask about tunes like "Rhythm Changes," "Stablemates," "Woody'n You," "Giant Steps," "Countdown," ... and then I ask about soloing, playing ballads, and playing uptempo.

It's okay if they can't play these harder tunes — Then I know they are really an intermediate player, and those are things we can start working on. These players might have a list of jazz recordings and bassists that they can name. If I know they are listening to the music, then it's easy to relate "learning technique" to what they want to learn how to play. Usually players at this level have been playing in some kind of ensemble for a while, and they have had some lessons for a couple of years.

Advanced: These players show their cards quickly, because I can hear the confidence and solid technique almost right away—even if they are "just playing a blues." These players have no problem coming up with a selection of things to play from memory. They have a good command of the instrument—scales of all types in at least 2 octaves, knowledge of major and minor ii-V-I, complete ease with the cycle of 5ths, knowledge of altered-dominant and melodic minor sounds, knowledge of diminished chords, scales and how to use diminished sounds, a command of jazz rhythms in walking and soloing. Strong quarter-note pulse, fluid rhythm when soloing, ability to play completely in time and swinging with no rhythm section or playbacks. These players can read and improvise on chord changes, and they can also "hear" chord changes if I play something on the piano. Advanced players have a strong knowledge of the jazz tradition, and they have several key influences who they can name, talk about and demonstrate ("I like Wilbur Ware's walking and solo on "Softly" from "A Night at the Village Vanguard" with Sonny Rollins, because..." The advanced players can play fast walking, a slow ballad melody, Latin rhythms, swing quarter-note and eighth-notes, 16th-note funk patterns, odd meters, outline changes in detail (no question about an Em7(b5) or an A7(b13) sound). These players probably have been playing in bands for years, and they've put in a lot of hours for years and years to get to this level. There is a deep well of learning that is available to an advanced bass player who keeps digging.

Professional: Just because someone is working a lot of gigs doesn't mean that they are an advanced player—but usually they have gotten to the point of being a busy bassist because they are doing something right. They might be an intermediate player who just shows up and gets the job done. They might have a great feel, or they can learn music fast, or they play cool solos—or they have a van that will hold all of the band's equipment. I always hope that, even from a professional bassist, I can have a discussion about what we find good in music and bass technique. Sometimes when players start working a lot of gigs, they stop practicing and think that they've "made it." But that is exactly when they have a chance to make quantum improvements—when they are on the bandstand every night. I am always making inquiries into my own playing to try and get better, and I would expect the same from any other professional. I've found that all of the "giants" of bass playing whom I've had contact with over the years still strive to study, practice and improve their playing.

So, that's my $0.02 in response to your question. Maybe some other teachers will chime in here and offer their perspectives.

BTW: We're having auditions in June at the Conservatorium Maastricht for the BA and MA in Jazz Double Bass — if anyone is interested in studying in the Netherlands.

 

[bobba66]

Hmmmmmmm. No.

 

[fdeck]

Academics who's livelihood depends on being able to define a set of goals to achieve a judgable and scorable level of achievement need parameters such as these, as do the institutions making money from offering tutelage and qualifications based on a syllabus.

Whether the people exiting these establishments have the ability to produce any music that is unique, inventive, joyful, inspirational, or simply just plain good fun, remains beyond the scope of their training. It's the same with most qualifications, everyone with an art school qualification, won't necessarily be a great artist, or every one who passes a bar exam, prove to be a good lawyer, or every intern turns out to be a great doctor.

I have nothing against structured music study, reading music, (I was taught to read music as a kid) or advanced study of music theory, but having those skills isn't of itself a gauge of anything other than technical ability and the retention of imparted facts. And there's more to music than just technical ability and remembering what someone else deemed the most important things for you to know.

This sounds excessively cynical, but maybe it varies from country to country. I live near a major US university, and know people who are teachers, students, and graduates, in their music programs. I played a gig with several of them today. I think I was the only person on the bandstand without college level music training. In my view, it would be freakishly difficult to get through a music performance degree without becoming a very good all-round musician.

Just getting into such a program in the first place requires an audition where you show a very high level of proficiency. That proficiency typically comes from private study plus performance experience.

The education is not pure classroom learning. Each student takes lessons from a professor, for the duration of the program. That professor is required to be a performing musician themselves. Technical ability is just a small part of what music students learn. The students are also required to play in student ensembles, that are coached by faculty members. They are immersed in an atmosphere where music is everywhere, and is experienced in the ways that you describe, including just plain good fun.

 

[micahwc]

I’m a professional jazz rocking semi-pro.

strengths: learning parts by ear, read standard notation, tab, and NNS as well as sight read pretty well, able to make up bass lines fairly easily, practices and rehearses a lot for gigs. Proficient in finger style, picking, and taping. Plays multiple other instruments. Consistently wary to rehearsal and gigs, sober, drug free. Able to play most rhythmic parts by feel.

weaknesses: not great at slap, tend to get into a rut and play the same kinds of music over and over, some intermediate music theory and everything more advanced than that flys right over my head when I try to learn it.

 

[legalbass]

Wow, in 14 years of playing bass I didn't realize I needed to be doing these stretches before I played. Glad I finally found this article.

Also, "reading" tab isn't a skill at any level, because it isn't a skill at all.

 

[Matty Koff]

DONT TRY TO CATEGORIZE ME GAT DANKIT.

 

[Real Soon]

Based on this, I'd call myself a Journeyman bassist...though I'm pretty advanced where theory & reading are concerned. My fingers aren't where my head is!

Also, yeah as noted above: reading tab comfortably is something applicable to beginners thru advanced. And hey, as in my case, reading standard notation can be too. That part of it is just not on the same skew as technical ability, also not the same as pure theory knowledge. Musical understanding is a pretty complex undertaking.