Sleep Writing

[Jeff Hughes]

This happens to me more with lyrics than tunes, but when I demo a song to my bandmate, I always ask, “ is this already a song?”

 

[MochaFiend]

Hey @MochaFiend I totally get what you’re torturing yourself over. I’m slowly coming around to seeing music as essentially communication, with riffs and other musical ideas as words and phrases and memes that are effective because they are part of a shared language - not because they are original. Even if something comes to me that I think is original I know it’s at most an interesting recombination of things I’ve heard before, so I shouldn’t feel any true ownership if I’m honest. And really, I’m noticing a lot more now, thanks to the possibility of streaming every song that’s ever been recorded, that nearly everything is quoting, referencing or pointing to other stuff that came before. The artists may not have been aware of it; doesn’t matter; it’s what makes this common language. Originality is overrated- obviously there used to be money in rights to recorded songs, but with 100K new songs uploaded to Spotify every day that’s over. I think now as musicians it’s just about communicating with other musicians and with an audience and in this case we shouldn’t avoid riffs just because we fear they may have already been used before; just let the ocean wash up seashells and if you find a pretty one show it to your musician friends and audience. Doesn’t matter if you created the seashell, you can be proud you found it and shared it with others.

I didn't have a chance to reply to this earlier, but thank you for this very romantic idea of sharing things you've picked up along the way. This is such a novel thought, as it regards music / copyright, and I read it a couple times because it resonated. Now, when people want to know whose forum post I have ripped off, it is yours. I will provide attribution when possible, but if your ears are ringing at some point in the future, it's because I am restating your post for others. You may want to call your attorney.

 

[MochaFiend]

I have come up with some of my best ideas without the instrument in my hands, though not while sleeping. Usually I get a lot of ideas when I'm out running. The hard part is not forgetting it so that I can sing it into my phone when I'm done!

I can't remember which very famous musician it was, but I remember reading that they always carry a small recording device with them at all times. They talked about getting up in the middle of dinner at a restaurant to run to the restroom to hum their idea into the recorder.

I totally feel you though -- the number of riffs I've forgotten far outstrips the ones I managed to record.

 

[MochaFiend]

Exactly. When you present your killer new riff at rehearsal, and your bandmates just kind of look at you with incredulous expressions, and the silence goes on too long until one of them says, "you ever hear that song by so-and-so?"

And then you get pissed off that you've been obsessing for 72 hours over a riff you stole from an episode of the Brady Bunch.

Okay, I laughed. I'm feeling the Johnny Bravo.

 

[MochaFiend]

There's the story of the sax player back in the 1960's that had a recurring dream of writing a song in his sleep, a really beautiful and haunting tune. Each time it was the same tune, but when he woke in the morning, he couldn't remember his composition. It happened again and again - the same beautiful melody.

One of his cohorts suggested that he keep sone staff paper on his bedside table, and before he went to bed to tell himself over and over that when the tune came to him he would wake up and write it down. It worked! One night he had the dream, woke up and quickly wrote it down, and went back to sleep knowing that the tune would be there in the morning.

The next morning when he awakened he quickly grabbed the sheet, took it to the piano and played his elusive tune. He was crestfallen to discover that it was Stardust - written in 1927 by Hoagy Carmichael.

This! 100% this. Thank you for sharing this anecdote.

 

[MochaFiend]

Butch Walker--a prolific songwriter (has written for tons of outfits including Pink, Bowling for Soup, Weezer, Fallout Boy, inter alia) and musician wrote the song "Summer of 89," as kind of an homage to Brian Adams' "Summer of 69" for one of his solo albums. After it was released, he was informed by one of "The Chicks" (f/k/a "Dixie Chicks") that he had ripped off the verse riff of "Goodbye Earl."

So I'm not alone! Thank you for sharing this story. If it can happen to a prolific songwriter, it can likely happen to anyone.

I'm also reminded of Men At Work (80s band) who were sued mercilessly for unintentionally incorporating a riff from a children's song written in 1932. That part of the song was only a few notes, and the rest of the song was not at all like Kookaburra, but those 11 notes were enough to destroy the band.

 

[5aP]

I can't remember which very famous musician it was, but I remember reading that they always carry a small recording device with them at all times. They talked about getting up in the middle of dinner at a restaurant to run to the restroom to hum their idea into the recorder.

I totally feel you though -- the number of riffs I've forgotten far outstrips the ones I managed to record.

Today we use mobile phones for that. I record a video, because alot of new ideas I play on unplugged electric bass - so recordings can be pretty quiet. So then I watch videos of what I acctually played in that moment.

 

[Pacman]

Not Technique related. Moved to Miscellaneous.

 

[Michedelic]

The “Satisfaction” riff came to Keith Richards when he was nodding off, supposedly(no jokes, please, it was 1965).

 

[Danny O Danny]

Hi MochaFiend,

The anxiety you feel about subconsciously copying someone else's song is a very, very common worry among songwriters, including very successful and well-known ones. If sometime down the road you're performing (or have recorded) a song and someone points out to you that it closely resembles some other song, then as long as you know your conscious intention wasn't to plagiarize, you can say "oops" and reconfigure the song as needed--changing the melody a bit or whatever. And, hey, if you ever make it as big as Led Zeppelin or Radiohead or Ed Sheeran and get accused of copying someone else's song, you can add the plaintiff to the copyright so they get their share of royalties. Until then, I say trust your good intentions and trust that the idea that come to you are probably safe to use (until proven otherwise).

In some genres, such as the blues, copying another song but changing it slightly is a tradition.

I just finished reading Geddy Lee's excellent autobiography and he tells a story in there about the time early on when Alex Lifeson wrote a song (chords and melody) and presented it to the band and they laughed and said "Congratulations Alex! You've just written Little Wing!" But, of course Lifeson went on to co-write dozens (hundreds?) of Rush songs.

I've written a few songs based on things that came to me in my sleep. Sometimes a lyrical phrase, sometimes a riff or melody or chord progression. A couple of years ago I had a dream that I was playing and singing a song with a band, and the audience was singing along to the chorus. I woke up and, like you, sung as much as I could remember into my phone before it all slipped away. Then later that day I wrote the song, or at least a song based on the song I dreamed, using the fragments I recorded. But, as with all my songs, I'm aware that someday someone might say "Hey, you know that song really sounds a lot like that other song by..." If/when that happens, I'll deal with it. Until then I'll enjoy it.