Sliding chords on fretless

[Tedthulhu]

Hi there!

I first became interested in fretless bass mostly due to two bassists; Les Claypool and Steve DiGiorgio's outstanding fretless playing on Death's classic, "Individual Thought Patterns". My question pertains specifically to ITP. In the song, "The Philosopher", towards the end, there are a couple of micro breaks where Steve's bass gets a few moments to shine. In one of those micro breaks, he does what I have always assumed is a sliding power chord, and it sounds AMAZING. It's a technique I've always wondered about, and I'm curious if any other fretless players use that technique, and might have suggestions on how to pull it off AND stay in tune at speed. I know, the answer is likely to be "practice it a lot", but if there are other instances of that technique are out there, I'd love to see how other bassists have approached/mastered that specific trick. So let me know - is this technique something you have used? How did you practice it? What did you use it for? All input is welcome, as always! Keep it low.

 

[ardgedee]

The answer to any question about a completely wack fretless technique being played with rock-solid form is usually Michael Manring.

Though with that said this isn't what you're asking for... I'm posting this video for an interesting trick, where when changing between chords he only slides one finger instead of all of them. He gets the portamento without complicating the intonation. You might not even notice unless you're watching for it though I suspect the chorus and reverb are helping to hide it by thickening the sound.

 

[Slevage]

I suggest starting with 2 notes. Thirds (maj and min), fifths, fourth (pretty easy), min 7th with a 10th on top is a cool trick, octaves....... then take a walk on the wild side and do tenths.

Once you are comfortable with 2 notes, move on to 3 note chords, keep going until you run out of fingers.

 

[Element Zero]

Yup lots of practice

 

[Norm Nelson]

The answer to any question about a completely wack fretless technique being played with rock-solid form is usually Michael Manring.

Amen. Got to see him once (with Hedges! and George Winston!) - truly amazing.

OP, can I ask a question? I just listened to "Individual Thought Patterns" (the song) and while I heard some cool fretless work in there I did not hear any sliding chords as you described, just some (really cool) sliding individual notes (or maybe double-stops). Is there a place in the song where this is happening so I can listen for it again? Thanks!! EDIT WHOOPS wrong song - I got it, sorry! I failed reading comprehension today.

 

[ManyMountains]

I’m working on a similar technique for the end of Pearl Jam’s song Black, where Jeff Ament is moving around with a great melody line but in octaves. It’s not easy and I haven’t found any secret other than practice practice practice. It’s an amazing song and his playing influenced me to pick up the Fretless. Good luck to you, OP.

 

[N4860]

Hi there!

I first became interested in fretless bass mostly due to two bassists; Les Claypool and Steve DiGiorgio's outstanding fretless playing on Death's classic, "Individual Thought Patterns". My question pertains specifically to ITP. In the song, "The Philosopher", towards the end, there are a couple of micro breaks where Steve's bass gets a few moments to shine. In one of those micro breaks, he does what I have always assumed is a sliding power chord, and it sounds AMAZING. It's a technique I've always wondered about, and I'm curious if any other fretless players use that technique, and might have suggestions on how to pull it off AND stay in tune at speed. I know, the answer is likely to be "practice it a lot", but if there are other instances of that technique are out there, I'd love to see how other bassists have approached/mastered that specific trick. So let me know - is this technique something you have used? How did you practice it? What did you use it for? All input is welcome, as always! Keep it low.

Yeah, I've done stuff like that technique too and the obvious answer (which you correctly noted) is just practice. There's really not any other alternative aside from winging it and hoping it sounds good by chance.

 

[Element Zero]

…Pearl Jam’s song Black… It’s an amazing song…

Indeed. One of my favorite Pearl Jam tunes.

 

[CryingBass]

Intonations. In the right place.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

People talk about DiGiorgio like he's a god, but he's buried deep in the mix. Seems like a lot of work to not really be heard.

 

[poochiecheeks]

Are you talking about the sliding harmonic he does during the second phrase of the philosopher solo?
that album has a TON of double stop/power chords on it. like every song. its one of his things and ive sort of adapted it into my playing from learning that album cover to cover.
he does another cool one after the middle guitar break in in human form

even though the bass is non existant on human its all over that album too if you look up the isolated bass tracks. again right after one of the guitar breaks on flattening of emotions hes just slamming power chords with the rythm guitars. but i believe that album was recorded on a rick and not "the frog" fretless parts bass

if youve ever learned continuum. the sliding octave part in the middle, i find its easier to play lower down the neck with fingers 1 and 4 and then past the ~9th position or so with 1 and 3. easier to keep that intoniation spacing with the notes closer together

 

[SC Bassboy]

I don't know guys, I think Mark Sandman's technique for sliding a chord is easier than all the practice you guys are suggesting

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

For me, sliding double stops, from thirds through octaves, work best with a technique called "forking," or as close as you can adapt it for the specific situation.

The higher up the neck, the easier it is to hold the shape of the stop, but the smaller the margin for error.

 

[logdrum]

I have to admit I've never done much chords (more than 2 notes ) slides. More common for me is double stops.. Chords are most played as arpeggios pr strummed. It's hard on the fretless. I would practice slotting your intonation from destination to target without sliding first until the muscle memory is solid and slowly slide. If you really care about your intonation but if you are using it more as dramatic effect then maybe it is not an issue. Check with tuner.

Get better with power chords first before attempting diatonic. and extensions I think 3 is plenty. All my fretless are wide 19 and 20mm spacing with wide nuts. At best I can only do a 4 string stretch as a static chord but I think I would hurt myself beyond that. Well I can do with my thumb on the B string and finger a flat 13 on the G with my first finger , but intonation would be a challenge.

Chords on a fretless is really the domain of the long fingered players

EDIT:

I looked up the band and the song -- yeah sliding power chords not hard. Just make sure from the original chord that you are tune, then do the target chord and check tuning. Just shift do not slide yet. Then slide string so that each is in tune when you start and end. Then do it together. He also added some chorus or maybe even a phaser. Thickens the sound amd makes intonation a little more forgiving. Good luck.

 

[BassicJazzy]

What is going on with the tuners on that Zon! I'm just a stupid caveman who whacks at my bass like it was a club I found lying in the cave, I have no idea what he is doing with that one. Didn't even get to the part you were mentioning.

Thanks for posting, yet another player who makes me feel totally inadequate about my playing.

 

[logdrum]

What is going on with the tuners on that Zon! I'm just a stupid caveman who whacks at my bass like it was a club I found lying in the cave, I have no idea what he is doing with that one. Didn't even get to the part you were mentioning.

Thanks for posting, yet another player who makes me feel totally inadequate about my playing.

All his tuners have an Hipshot bass extender, not just the E string. -- And he probably has the double stop which will give him 2 tunings per string I think he also has them on the bridge,. The PDX guy or Les Fret they know about this. I think when I saw him before it was only the tuners. I do not know how it works on the bridge. He also has Pezo pickups not just on the body but even on the neck. I assume he uses light strings

 

[Les Fret]

Can you point us to the specific timing in that song? I have listened to the song but can't hear the chords you mention. Maybe you mean that sliding harmonic in the fade out at the very end? But bit buried in the mix unfortunately. I use sliding chords/double stops on fretless a lot myself. I like it.

 

[ardgedee]

What is going on with the tuners on that Zon!

All his tuners have an Hipshot bass extender, not just the E string. -- And he probably has the double stop which will give him 2 tunings per string I think he also has them on the bridge,.

Everything you could possibly want to know, with detailed footage of mechanisms in action:


Despite what the video thumbnail says, they also go over how the Xtender tuners on the headstock work.

tl;dw: The bridge has two levers, the two higher strings move differently than the two lower strings, and he can adjust the tuning stops with set screws. All four tuners on the headstock have Hipshot Xtenders, each of which have three positions (edit: I think he says each string can have up to three positions but he usually only performs with two on the higher strings, and maybe the lowest string can have four positions? I am confused and in awe). There's a little chat about the tuning combinations he uses, too.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Isn't fretless hard enough?

 

[lokikallas]

Steve is just really, really good at fretless. He does slide power chords and or double stops often. Another fun trick is sliding harmonics, which can only be done on a fretless.