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Double Bass Slonimsky's Thesaurus - Pablo Held

Don Kasper

Don Kasper

Gold Supporting Member
Dec 30, 2012
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#1
Because it's a slow-news day, and I've been housebound this week (cataract surgery...), I'll post this interesting perspective on N. Slonimsky's "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns", by Mr. Held, a very fine jazz pianist and composer. IMFO.
Note: I DO own a copy of this book, and it is in Mint Condition. ;)
Enjoy.
 
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#2
Don Kasper said:
Because it's a slow-news day, and I've been housebound this week (cataract surgery...), I'll post this interesting perspective on N. Slonimsky's "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns", by Mr. Held, a very fine jazz pianist and composer. IMFO.
Note: I DO own a copy of this book, and it is in Mint Condition. ;)
Enjoy.
Click to expand...

I hope you have a great recovery and outlook on your surgery. 💐
 
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#4
Don Kasper said:
Thanks, bass player...for your kind words.
I believe my cataracts are the remnants of ice crystals formed during my first 33yrs. in Buffalo and Rochester, NY, WINTERS!
But, I Am Not A Doctor!
;) (see what I did here?)
Thx.
Click to expand...
Yikes, well I lived in Buffalo for 6 years, attending UB for 4 and working for 2. I was there during the historic blizzard of ‘77. So, I can relate. Best Regards. ❄️
 
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#5
If Rodney Dangerfield was an upright player:

"Johnny, my doctor is a schmuck. He don't care what happens to me. I go have eye surgery, I get home, look at my bass and I'm seeing double. I call him up, he says give me a second. I ask why. He says so he can cue the violins. What a guy, I'm telling ya".

Which reminds me: in his early NYC days, the late Dennis Irwin was in the house band at Dangerfield's supper club. When the moment was right, he could do the best impersonation of Dangerfield I ever heard.
 
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#6
Don Kasper said:
Because it's a slow-news day, and I've been housebound this week (cataract surgery...), I'll post this interesting perspective on N. Slonimsky's "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns", by Mr. Held, a very fine jazz pianist and composer. IMFO.
Note: I DO own a copy of this book, and it is in Mint Condition. ;)
Enjoy.
Click to expand...


Mint condition? Have you opened it?
 
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#8
I played a gig with one of my sax heros, Bill Easley, once. The highest level of player, but doesn’t speak or think chord/scale stuff. I tried to get him to give me a lesson but he refused and proceeded to outline his whole playing/practice conception built on creating interval patterns studies for himself. Dude basically outlined the Theosaurus in 15 minutes without realizing it and without using high falootin’ terms like “interfrapolization” or whatever.

I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s a great way to think about and understand melodic content, but is a lot more intuitive than it would lead you to believe.
 
#9
JBarz said:
I played a gig with one of my sax heros, Bill Easley, once. The highest level of player, but doesn’t speak or think chord/scale stuff. I tried to get him to give me a lesson but he refused and proceeded to outline his whole playing/practice conception built on creating interval patterns studies for himself. Dude basically outlined the Theosaurus in 15 minutes without realizing it and without using high falootin’ terms like “interfrapolization” or whatever.

I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s a great way to think about and understand melodic content, but is a lot more intuitive than it would lead you to believe.
Click to expand...
Yes, and... You'll notice that Mr. Held also doesn't find the "high falootin' terms" very helpful, as well.
Thx.
 
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#10
And, Mr. Held actually played through the book, exploring sounds, "bookmarking" excerpt pages he liked, using it as a primer to a well of ideas, and sharing implementation through his playing. I enjoyed it.

Thanks for sharing the thread, Mr. Kasper, with hopes for your quick, merciful, and effective healing.
 
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#11
Thank you for linking to Pablo and the book, especially under your difficult present circumstances.

Two things I noted when I went to get a copy:

1) I couldn't find a ringbound edition, which I was hoping for. If anyone knows of a ringbound edition, please let us know.

2) There seem to be many different editions of the book and at least two of the ones Amazon sells were called out as photocopier frauds by a small percentage of reviewers. It's often hard to know where the legitimacy lies among product reviews these days. Some of the rave reviewers and the angry grumblers could both be bogus.

Nonetheless, I look forward to checking it out one way or another.
 
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#12
Low Main said:
Thank you for linking to Pablo and the book, especially under your difficult present circumstances.

Two things I noted when I went to get a copy:

1) I couldn't find a ringbound edition, which I was hoping for. If anyone knows of a ringbound edition, please let us know.

2) There seem to be many different editions of the book and at least two of the ones Amazon sells were called out as photocopier frauds by a small percentage of reviewers. It's often hard to know where the legitimacy lies among product reviews these days. Some of the rave reviewers and the angry grumblers could both be bogus.

Nonetheless, I look forward to checking it out one way or another.
Click to expand...
Jamey Aebersold has advertised it for a long time. It says paperback, and I’ve never seen a ring bound edition. I’ve taken paperback music books to local printers and had them convert it to spiral bound versions for minimal cost. I see that Amazon has basically the same thing.
 

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#15
As a bass player this book is mostly useless in practice. The "scales" within the book are basically math concepts to me and the progressions they outline are so symmetrical in their nature that most of the written music sounds very tritone to me. Yes, you can find some cool licks and inspiration perhaps as I have done with a couple of segments but it takes a lot of time to find it within the structure of this book.

Edit: I should add that I have the guitar version of this book which I think is likely wildly different in how it presents the concepts.
 
#16
I really like the chapter on pentatonics...

N4860 said:
As a bass player this book is mostly useless in practice.
Click to expand...

The entire book is "in C" as it were, so you have to suppose everything shown in the book has 11 more transpositions. That's already annoying. It's also written with piano in mind, so most things aren't exactly in the bass' usual range.

I would love to see a digital app version of the book with the possibility to quickly change transpositions and define a maximum range. I'd be warming up with that every day if it only existed.
 
#17
PaulCannon said:
The entire book is "in C" as it were, so you have to suppose everything shown in the book has 11 more transpositions. That's already annoying. It's also written with piano in mind, so most things aren't exactly in the bass' usual range.
Click to expand...

That part didn't bother me at all as I wouldn't personally expect them to include the same thing 12 times in every key. That would be a bit redundant to me so it's not a problem that everything is in C. I just don't find the scales all that useful in practice so far but like I said, I've got the guitar version of the book, not the piano version.
 
#18
PaulCannon said:
I really like the chapter on pentatonics...



The entire book is "in C" as it were, so you have to suppose everything shown in the book has 11 more transpositions. That's already annoying. It's also written with piano in mind, so most things aren't exactly in the bass' usual range.

I would love to see a digital app version of the book with the possibility to quickly change transpositions and define a maximum range. I'd be warming up with that every day if it only existed.
Click to expand...
This is not correct, modes of limited transposition are exactly that. A whole tone scale has one mode and 2 transpositions. A half step/whole step (or octatonic scale) has two modes and 3 transpositions etc… It is 100% worthwhile to explore, however I find the book itself to be less important than spending time exploring the non-diatonic relationships derived from it. For example, a tri-tone substitution is a common use of a non diatonic relationship between dominant chords derived from a half step/whole step scale. Further exploration of this scale yields 4 notes, say C,Eb,F#,A, that from each could be derived a major 6th chord, a dominant 7, minor 6, minor 7, half diminished 7, or a fully diminished 7. There are all kinds of connections and interesting resolutions that you can find here. It’s no surprise that Coltrane and just about every heavyweight since had dealt with this stuff.

Sorry, too much coffee today…. My advice, find a thread to pull on and put the book away for a bit. Come back when you need more.
 
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