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Small Cab for Recording
- Thread starter PianoOfDoom
- Start date
TL;DR (well, I did read the first few posts, until you dismissed some excellent advice
).What microphone(s) (brands, models, etc.) are you using, and what kind of mic'ing techniques have you tried?
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I don't think the 100hz boost this is baked in to the voicing of the cab or amp. Just listen to all the videos and I think you will agree.
Since you have tried both an SM57 and M88, I think the most likely explanation is a room resonance. Have you tried recording in a different room?
It also is possible there is something wrong with either the amp or cab. Do you have other amps or cabs you can try? Can you borrow? Can you take your gear to a music store? Have you tried the amp's Transformer Balanced Line Out? If the signal from the Transformer Balanced Line Out has the 100hz boost, it's either the amp or somewhere in your signal path.
Before buying something else, you should identify where the problem is, and if the gear is new, perhaps you can get it fixed under warranty.
Since you have tried both an SM57 and M88, I think the most likely explanation is a room resonance. Have you tried recording in a different room?
It also is possible there is something wrong with either the amp or cab. Do you have other amps or cabs you can try? Can you borrow? Can you take your gear to a music store? Have you tried the amp's Transformer Balanced Line Out? If the signal from the Transformer Balanced Line Out has the 100hz boost, it's either the amp or somewhere in your signal path.
Before buying something else, you should identify where the problem is, and if the gear is new, perhaps you can get it fixed under warranty.
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The Ampeg PF112HLF is a relatively smooth sounding cab and with that head you should be able to get things under control . Also since this is a cab thread I would suggest the Trace Elliot 2x8 cab or for much less green the 110 cab. They both sound great and might cure your boom Issue. Also for the dough the Peavey Headliner 112 is a very decent sounding cab with a very smooth horn (not too Zingy)
Might be worth it to confirm that there is not an issue with the head.
Yeah, the totally "pro" way to go is to track DI and with an amp. That said, that technique is dropping off more and more in favor of DI, and amp sims. I do agree with the OP though, if you can do it, nothing like some real air moving. Can you get the same sound with sims, at least as far as how it sounds in a mix with other instruments? Pretty much, but it's fun to know you tracked it with an amp!
Do you ever re-amp? I ask because I've found that with both bass and guitar, re-amping really opens up more possibilities and frees you from trying to get the right amp sound when you're tracking. While the reamped track is pumping through the amp you can move it around, fiddle with it, play with baffles, whatever. It puts you in a different head space that I find good for engineering the amp sound without the bass/guitar in my hand. Even if I'm tracking a bass amp I always DI so I can re-amp it later, mix them together, etc. You might find your T-Bird DI'd, then mixed with a reamped signal through a guitar amp sounds killer when you blend them together. For rock I love that approach. The little Radial reamp box is like $100.
Having read though a few responses I have a couple of suggestions, , have you though of lowering your volume? The second Idea and more than likely cheaper than a new cab, would be a EQ to cut that annoying frequency?
Might seem silly but check that everything in and on the cab is tight.
I could hear a very light but distinctly brassy sound on one cab I had whenever I'd play a low A, and among other things I looked and tried tightening everything; nothing helped. It wasn't very loud, but it just bugged me. Oddly I just happened to be playing on it one day and I happened to put my hand right down on the front left corner guard while that note was ringing, and it stopped!!! Took off the corner and found a little flap of plywood by a screw clearance hole that must have split during assembling the cab in the factory. Darned thing was buzzing like a tiny reed in a horn. It just had to be flapping around a tiny bit at that specific frequency. I bent it back to snap it off, and put a drop of white glue on it, never heard it again.
That's the problem with cabinets, they're designed to maximize the sound of a small vibration.
I could hear a very light but distinctly brassy sound on one cab I had whenever I'd play a low A, and among other things I looked and tried tightening everything; nothing helped. It wasn't very loud, but it just bugged me. Oddly I just happened to be playing on it one day and I happened to put my hand right down on the front left corner guard while that note was ringing, and it stopped!!! Took off the corner and found a little flap of plywood by a screw clearance hole that must have split during assembling the cab in the factory. Darned thing was buzzing like a tiny reed in a horn. It just had to be flapping around a tiny bit at that specific frequency. I bent it back to snap it off, and put a drop of white glue on it, never heard it again.
That's the problem with cabinets, they're designed to maximize the sound of a small vibration.
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I use a Gallien Krueger MBE-111 but for a bright tone I have used a Twin Reverb miked with great results playing with a pick
If you want to have a small cab for recording, I'm using an Eden EX-112 and driving it with an Eden TN-226 (225-watts class D amp, 4.7-lbs). I specifically bought them for a small venue we play on Friday nights 3 or 4 times each month. After I got the cab, I bought another and use two of them for larger venues. The EX-112 cab was $269 and a whizzer cone (cone within a cone) for high-mids and highs. The TN-226 I bought used for $275 including the shoulder bag. I can put the amp in the shoulder bag, grab the cab in one hand and my bass in the other and away I go. this set-up has a really small footprint. Here's a look at it (shoulder bag is under the chair with big red E on the front).
Another thing that works really well for recording is my WTDI. This is a DI box with an Eden preamp and compressor built in. Used it on a recording session last month when the studio told me to leave my DNS-410 cab in the car. They put me in the same room as the drums and didn't want any bleed between the two tracks. They also didn't want me to use my own DI box, but finally relented. After the session was over the engineer/owner came out and had to inspect my WTDI because it sounded so good. When I record at home, I just plug this into my computer interface box and go. Price on it is still hovering around $150. Here's what that looks like:
So that's another option you have. The Eden gear is really clear, full, and articulate. If you want a more "Ampegy-type" sound, I think Ampeg makes a DI with built-in preamp too.
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In the spirit of Wasnex reaction you might do a test first. The best way would be to get some specific dampening material, but just to see if there is a 100hz resonance in the cab that can be dampened you can take out one driver and stuff in a small pillow or a large wool sweater or wathever. As long as it will fill part of the cab and preferably has some weight to it. As this is a test there is no harm in overdoing it. Put the driver back and see what happens. If it does make a difference I’d get some proper dampening material and step by step increase the amount to reach a point you’re happy with. More dampening inhibits dissapation of heat from the driver motor. So it limits the ability to be used on the edge for a longer period.
Anyway I did not get if you tried the transformer out for recording. Would be smart to try that just to make sure it’s not the amp before you open the cab up.
Funny you would mention an SWR combo. I’ve got an old 60W SWR cube with a 10 and a horn and it’s my brothers favorite way to record bass in his home studio.
Just a question did you ever remove the grill and make sure the screws holding the speaker in were tight ? The reason I ask is when I got my PF112HLF's they sounded kind of boomy so I checked the screws and every one of them were loose. When I tightened them up it it tightened up the low end and no more boom
I got behind on replying here, so sorry. Things are still weird.
Here's what I tried today:
- 210av/PF50T in studio room (with quite a few GiK bass traps), Thunderbird and TB64. Big G note explosions
- Ampeg Gemini I guitar amp, same room and basses. No explosions. This amp is actually quite good for bass, even though it is intended for guitar. Good bottom, but not crazy like a dedicated bass amp. If this didn't have a noise issue at the moment, I'd just record with it and keep the PF/210 as a synth amp. It's going to the doctor shortly.
- 210/PF in much larger living room with different shape, same basses. Same notes exploding just as much.
-Tbird/PF50 transformer out into REDDI/1073. No explosions
- TBird 210av with Vox AC15 head. No explosions. Sounds pretty good as you push the gain, but not very bottomy.
The thing that's throwing me is the exact same exploding notes in those very different rooms. If it's just a standing wave issue, that's a coincidence. I could write off the resonance in the room with the pf/210 combo only as extended bass intensity compared to the other amps, but the difference is really night and day.
Here's what I tried today:
- 210av/PF50T in studio room (with quite a few GiK bass traps), Thunderbird and TB64. Big G note explosions
- Ampeg Gemini I guitar amp, same room and basses. No explosions. This amp is actually quite good for bass, even though it is intended for guitar. Good bottom, but not crazy like a dedicated bass amp. If this didn't have a noise issue at the moment, I'd just record with it and keep the PF/210 as a synth amp. It's going to the doctor shortly.
- 210/PF in much larger living room with different shape, same basses. Same notes exploding just as much.
-Tbird/PF50 transformer out into REDDI/1073. No explosions
- TBird 210av with Vox AC15 head. No explosions. Sounds pretty good as you push the gain, but not very bottomy.
The thing that's throwing me is the exact same exploding notes in those very different rooms. If it's just a standing wave issue, that's a coincidence. I could write off the resonance in the room with the pf/210 combo only as extended bass intensity compared to the other amps, but the difference is really night and day.
Totally outside my realm of expertise (I figure there's got to be at least one, somewhere), but I think that I've read of at least one case of an amp having an electrical issue causing booming/resonance at certain frequencies - it might even have been a PF-50T, but I could very well be imagining that - don't know what or how, though.
I could still see the issue being cab and/or room related, but can you try playing the stack outside? If you still got the same booming notes, that'd be interesting. If there's a store with a PF-50T you could play alongside yours, that might be worthwhile, too.
Beyond, that and trying a different cab with the amp (or another bass amp with the cab), if I could, I'd see what the doctor and/or Ampeg says.
