Small cab/speakers for '70s Super Bass style tone?

[Carlsefni]

After many years of not having a real bass amp, a local amp builder (I'm in S. America) is making me a head based on the Marshall 1986 50w Super Bass circuit. (Yes, I love '70s-style Super Bass tones! ) It will probably be mostly for use at home, and I might record mostly with a mix of DI and IR, but I don't actually own a bass cab (since I haven't have a bass amp!), and I'm thinking that maybe I should get just a small cabinet so that I can play at low volume.

I could just get an Orange OBC112 or OBC212 (though quite likely 1x12 is enough for home!). I like Orange, and those cabs are available locally.

But then I thought that actual '70s Super Basses were usually paired with (4x12) Marshall 1982 cabs loaded with 30w Celestion G12H speakers with 55Hz cones, which are theoretically re-created in Celestion's current "Heritage Series G12H(55) (Legacy)" speakers.

Of course, a 4x12 would be serious overkill for me, though perhaps I could get a custom 1x12 (or even 2x12) made to go with my amp. My amp maker also manufactures cabs and offers a stock 1x12 model designed for guitarists loaded with a V30 speaker. But perhaps I could get him to make one with a G12H(55) ....

Of course, a 1x12 is not a 4x12, and I am not a speaker-cabinet designer, and there are limitations on how well any 1x12 would approximate the tone of a 4x12, regardless of the speaker. And this would just be for home-playing (or maybe an on-stage monitor), so it's likely that I am stupidly overthinking this and should just go to the shop and get an Orange OBC112 and not worry about it.

Still ... I wanted to put the idea before the wisdom of the forum and see if there were any thoughts or suggestions.

 

[bassplace]

After many years of not having a real bass amp, a local amp builder (I'm in S. America) is making me a head based on the Marshall 1986 50w Super Bass circuit. (Yes, I love '70s-style Super Bass tones! ) It will probably be mostly for use at home, and I might record mostly with a mix of DI and IR, but I don't actually own a bass cab (since I haven't have a bass amp!), and I'm thinking that maybe I should get just a small cabinet so that I can play at low volume.

I could just get an Orange OBC112 or OBC212 (though quite likely 1x12 is enough for home!). I like Orange, and those cabs are available locally.

But then I thought that actual '70s Super Basses were usually paired with (4x12) Marshall 1982 cabs loaded with 30w Celestion G12H speakers with 55Hz cones, which are theoretically re-created in Celestion's current "Heritage Series G12H(55) (Legacy)" speakers.

Of course, a 4x12 would be serious overkill for me, though perhaps I could get a custom 1x12 (or even 2x12) made to go with my amp. My amp maker also manufactures cabs and offers a stock 1x12 model designed for guitarists loaded with a V30 speaker. But perhaps I could get him to make one with a G12H(55) ....

Of course, a 1x12 is not a 4x12, and I am not a speaker-cabinet designer, and there are limitations on how well any 1x12 would approximate the tone of a 4x12, regardless of the speaker. And this would just be for home-playing (or maybe an on-stage monitor), so it's likely that I am stupidly overthinking this and should just go to the shop and get an Orange OBC112 and not worry about it.

Still ... I wanted to put the idea before the wisdom of the forum and see if there were any thoughts or suggestions.

Have him build a matching 112 to go with the amp

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO a Marshall 412 would probably be at risk with a 50W Super bass. Back in the day, I believe they used a full stack for each 100W head and still managed to blow drivers. So a single 12 will really be at risk. If you want authentic I would go with a 412 and still suggest exhibiting a bit of restraint.

Also a Marshall 412 is pretty lean down low. Bumping the bass increases the risk of blowing drivers.

For context I have a Marshall 1960AX, 1960BX full stack. I also own vintage JMP 2203 and JCM 800 1959 heads. The cabs are loaded with G12M-25. The drivers are rated 25W and have 75HZ cones. Although not exactly the same, I don't think the G12H55 will offer a huge increase in performance and reliability.

 

[Aidenn7]

Dude an Electro-Voice EVM12L speakers in a 1x12 is prolly what you want.. lots of ppl used those in marshall cabs.​

 

[Makten]

IMHO a Marshall 412 would probably be at risk with a 50W Super bass. Back in the day, I believe they used a full stack for each 100W head and still managed to blow drivers. So a single 12 will really be at risk. If you want authentic I would go with a 412 and still suggest exhibiting a bit of restraint.

It will only be a risk if he's gonna crank the amp waaaay past "home volume".

 

[Carlsefni]

I really can't use a 4x12 with my 50w Super Bass amp -- it would be way too loud for home use! I have an 80w guitar amp with a 2x12, and I have to keep that waaay down at home! With my new 50w Super Bass amp, the real goal is to just get the smallest cab that's practical -- just so that, if I want, I can get a sound out of the amp without running it through the load box and into the computer/DAW.

Although the G12H 55 Hz speakers are what were used in Marshall 4x12 bass cabs back in the '70s, as Wasnex observes, people did blow them up all the time. Still, if the modern versions of the individual speaker are rated at 30w, should not a 2x12 (with two such speakers) have power handling of 60w, and thus be fine for a 50w bass amp? And then, the Electro-Voice EVM12L, as Aidenn7 suggests, is rated at 200w, so it should even be fine even in a 1x12. And an off-the-shelf Orange OBC112 is rated at 400w, so I really shouldn't be able to damage one of those even at louder-than-home volumes .... Unless I've totally misunderstood amp or cab power ratings, which is possible. I'm not a technician!

I guess it comes down to questions of: Is it really worth the hassle of getting a fun, custom 2x12 (perhaps safer than a 1x12?) with theoretically "more authentic" speakers (the G12H 55Hz Celestions)? Or, since I would be just playing this cab at low volumes at home, is it just less trouble in the end to give up on the illusory notion of "authenticity" and get an off-the-shelf 1x12 bass cab that is designed to handle more power than a 50w amp can throw at it anyway?

 

[dbsfgyd1]

After many years of not having a real bass amp, a local amp builder (I'm in S. America) is making me a head based on the Marshall 1986 50w Super Bass circuit. (Yes, I love '70s-style Super Bass tones! ) It will probably be mostly for use at home, and I might record mostly with a mix of DI and IR, but I don't actually own a bass cab (since I haven't have a bass amp!), and I'm thinking that maybe I should get just a small cabinet so that I can play at low volume.

I could just get an Orange OBC112 or OBC212 (though quite likely 1x12 is enough for home!). I like Orange, and those cabs are available locally.

But then I thought that actual '70s Super Basses were usually paired with (4x12) Marshall 1982 cabs loaded with 30w Celestion G12H speakers with 55Hz cones, which are theoretically re-created in Celestion's current "Heritage Series G12H(55) (Legacy)" speakers.

Of course, a 4x12 would be serious overkill for me, though perhaps I could get a custom 1x12 (or even 2x12) made to go with my amp. My amp maker also manufactures cabs and offers a stock 1x12 model designed for guitarists loaded with a V30 speaker. But perhaps I could get him to make one with a G12H(55) ....

Of course, a 1x12 is not a 4x12, and I am not a speaker-cabinet designer, and there are limitations on how well any 1x12 would approximate the tone of a 4x12, regardless of the speaker. And this would just be for home-playing (or maybe an on-stage monitor), so it's likely that I am stupidly overthinking this and should just go to the shop and get an Orange OBC112 and not worry about it.

Still ... I wanted to put the idea before the wisdom of the forum and see if there were any thoughts or suggestions.

I'd opt for a 112 and an Orange 112 with a RMS rating higher than your amp. I wouldn't worry too much about your choice cab creating too much volume as I'm pretty sure your amp will come with a volume control. If not, you likely have one on your bass.

 

[Carlsefni]

I'd opt for a 112 and an Orange 112 with a RMS rating higher than your amp. I wouldn't worry too much about your choice cab creating too much volume as I'm pretty sure your amp will come with a volume control. If not, you likely have one on your bass.

Yeah, my new 50w Super-Bass-style amp will indeed have an MV control (unlike the original 1986 Super Basses, mine will actually be a two-channel amp with 50w Super Bass specs in one preamp channel and the power amp section, but 50w 2204 specs in the other channel).

And a stock Orange OBC112 is rated at 400w, so I ought to have a lot of trouble blowing it up with a 50w amp. Although it doesn't feel like as much fun, I'm increasingly thinking that this is the simplest solution for a cab that would be mostly a "backup" for when I'm not playing through a load box to go into my computer's DAW (where I'd simulate whatever cabs/speakers with IRs).

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Yeah, my new 50w Super-Bass-style amp will indeed have an MV control (unlike the original 1986 Super Basses, mine will actually be a two-channel amp with 50w Super Bass specs in one preamp channel and the power amp section, but 50w 2204 specs in the other channel).

And a stock Orange OBC112 is rated at 400w, so I ought to have a lot of trouble blowing it up with a 50w amp. Although it doesn't feel like as much fun, I'm increasingly thinking that this is the simplest solution for a cab that would be mostly a "backup" for when I'm not playing through a load box to go into my computer's DAW (where I'd simulate whatever cabs/speakers with IRs).

I think you will really enjoy it. Have fun and rock on!

 

[Bob_Ross]

With all due respect to OP: you currently don't own any amp, so it doesn't matter what speaker cabinet you get; anything will be an improvement!

It's splitting hairs to worry about whether some speaker cabinet will sound just like a Marshall super bass 4 x 12. Just get something, ANYTHING, plug in your new amp head, and enjoy the sound that comes out.

(Personally I'd go for a compact 1 x 15, but that's just me.)

 

[Tassieviking]

The reason that the 4 x 12 cabs used to blow speakers is because the Celestion drivers used were designed for guitar and not Bass.
most speakers can not travel as far as bass frequencies wants them too, so the speaker cones overshoot and gets destroyed.
Bass speakers are designed to play low frequencies so you can use a 50 watt bass cab with a 50 watt bass amp.
Personally I would go for the Orange OBC112 because one day you might have a need for a 400 watt speaker, get a decent speaker now that can handle high power and then if you want to play at a larger venue one day you only need a more powerful amp head.

 

[Wasnex]

It will only be a risk if he's gonna crank the amp waaaay past "home volume".

While that's true, it's also generally why one would choose a Super Bass .

 

[Wasnex]

just so that, if I want, I can get a sound out of the amp without running it through the load box and into the computer/DAW.

If the goal is to push the amp to drive territory (typical of Marshall) it's going to be fairly loud. It's not going to work well in an apartment or family home.

A single 12 with a power soak will work. But IMHO using the attenuation necessary to keep the volume low tends to degrade the tone and feel.

 

[Wasnex]

And a stock Orange OBC112 is rated at 400w,

An OBC 112 should be fine with the amp. However it will sound like an OBC 112 rather than a Marshall 412. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on the type of tone you want.

What you may be missing is the choice of cab can have a huge impact on the resulting tone. For my needs Marshall 412s are not great bass cab, but they do sound like Marshall 412s. For the record I rarely push bass through any of my 412s....and I own 5.

 

[6thplanet]

How about start out with the safe bet, the Orange cab. Then, have the Celestion built and you'll have both flavors. When you blow the Celestion driver up, you'll still have the Orange to play through while you reminisce about how awesome that Celestion sounded up untill....

 

[jthisdell]

Modern bass cab design is so much more advanced that the 1970's.

 

[Carlsefni]

Thanks everyone for all the various replies. I think the simplest and most practical solution for is to get an Orange 1x12. There are locally available 1x12s or 2x12s locally from Fender and Ampeg, too -- but I've always liked Orange stuff, so I may just go that way.

I should re-emphasize that I wouldn't expect to record with a 1x12, I think; too much trouble for not enough return. I'd be using this cab just for playing at home when I don't want to bother going through the load box, the computer, IRs, and studio monitors -- where, of course, there is a lot more control over the tone. I've been direct'n'digital on bass for years, but I do enjoy using a "real" amp, even with IRs, and of course I can always have the "virtual cab" that I like with IRs. I suppose I could probably play small gigs with the 1x12, but I don't expect to gig much anymore, and even so, even down here in small venues, the bass is usually just run direct these days. So it's probably not an issue even then. And, honestly, even if I got a stack of 4x12s, that'd be way too loud for anything I would be likely to do!

 

[Carlsefni]

With all due respect to OP: you currently don't own any amp, so it doesn't matter what speaker cabinet you get; anything will be an improvement!

It's splitting hairs to worry about whether some speaker cabinet will sound just like a Marshall super bass 4 x 12. Just get something, ANYTHING, plug in your new amp head, and enjoy the sound that comes out.

(Personally I'd go for a compact 1 x 15, but that's just me.)

I have thought about a 1x15, but they seem very thin on the ground, locally! I did find a place with an Ampeg 1x15, I think -- from their light(er) weight Venture line -- but I think it costs more than the Orange 1x12, and I'm not sure it necessarily offers me advantages (other than being a relatively neutral black, rather than brilliant orange ).

 

[Wasnex]

I have thought about a 1x15, but they seem very thin on the ground, locally! I did find a place with an Ampeg 1x15, I think -- from their light(er) weight Venture line -- but I think it costs more than the Orange 1x12, and I'm not sure it necessarily offers me advantages (other than being a relatively neutral black, rather than brilliant orange ).

If possible, try before you buy. Lot's of variation in the way different cabs sound.