Well, I was just offering that 2x15 weight as an example. Cut it in 2, and then you've got maybe 2 30 pound 1x15s. There's so much "small for the sake of small" mentality out there on TB. In the end, it's important to remember what's important. Is it that your cabs will fit in a bus station locker, or that they sound great and have enough volume to do what you need? For a classic rock band, I just can't imagine a single 12 being anywhere close to enough, unless maybe you have the most amazing 12 ever. But even in that case, you are going to have it pushed to it's limits at all times, and you just can't get that "big" sound, without enough cone area. And part of classic rock is that "big" sound, even if you deliver it relatively quietly. The players back then were mostly using 1x18s, 2x15s, and 8x10s in whatever number they needed to get the job done.
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Smallest giggable bass cab?
- Thread starter Evil Undead
- Start date
You can have big sound out of a small cab. Its not cone area, its about displacement.
Too many times people ask about challenging size, weight, portability, and volume with additional restrictions. You want a cab that is light, the size of a 112, has a big sound, available at GC, and costs $200?
Not gonna happen.
To meet the light/loud/low criteria you have to use a premium driver. This busts the $200 budget, and the price point removes it from the GC show room. People building "Super cabs" are not getting rich and driving Lambos around the italian country side. Their price margins are incredibly slim.
So it boils down to what is really important, pick the trade offs that matter. Everyone wants a big sound, that is a given. Small size and lightweight? gonna cost you. Want it cheap or on the GC floor? gonna be heavier and bigger than you might want.
Too many times people ask about challenging size, weight, portability, and volume with additional restrictions. You want a cab that is light, the size of a 112, has a big sound, available at GC, and costs $200?
Not gonna happen.
To meet the light/loud/low criteria you have to use a premium driver. This busts the $200 budget, and the price point removes it from the GC show room. People building "Super cabs" are not getting rich and driving Lambos around the italian country side. Their price margins are incredibly slim.
So it boils down to what is really important, pick the trade offs that matter. Everyone wants a big sound, that is a given. Small size and lightweight? gonna cost you. Want it cheap or on the GC floor? gonna be heavier and bigger than you might want.
I think from time to time we need a reality check and it would do us well to remember that most 112s are just not going to cut the mustard. That is, unless they are a Thunderchild, fEARful etc. Sure a 112 *might* get you by (barely) but it depends on how much you are willing to compromise your sound for the sake of portability. I've used that markbass 112 combo in a pinch and while it got me by, the tone was thin and it was certainly not capable of putting a nice pillow of bass under the band.
IMO a 115 is a minimum with a rock band... unless you are using a 'super' 12.
Edit: +1 to the above posts. I didnt read those until after I posted, but yeah, your standard 112 is not sufficient IMO.
IMO a 115 is a minimum with a rock band... unless you are using a 'super' 12.
Edit: +1 to the above posts. I didnt read those until after I posted, but yeah, your standard 112 is not sufficient IMO.
Well with PA support it really should not matter much, however playing without PA support is obviously different. I have seen bassists in "softer rock" (meaning not obnoxiously loud guitars distorted beyond all heck and a crazy drummer) use anything from a single 210 to 118 and you could still hear it pretty well. These were very small venues or coffee shop type venues thought as a better way to describe it.
Actually it depends how you define big sound. do you mean deep? If so, displacement (Vd) is important or do you mean loud (cone area is important as this affects efficiency.).
However, there are some "big sound" small cabs available and yes they do use premium drivers.
I am building one now, is has a single 3012HO in a hybrid loading bass box, with a 18 sound 6ND mid and a tweeter, all at 101 dB/W 400W RMS 8 Ohms. Overall size 400mm wide, 370mm deep and 480mm high. Weight is approximately 26 lbs (12 Kgs).
Very loud cab, easily keeps up with drummer and an easy one hand lift. when finished I will put the details on TB. It won't sound quite a big below 60 Hz (due to the LF drivers in the fearfuls) but the box is much smaller and overall 5 to 6 dB louder (like two fearfuls!). The bass loading controls the cone movement more efficiently so it can make an HO in this box seem almost as bassy as an LF in a reflex.
However, there are some "big sound" small cabs available and yes they do use premium drivers.
I am building one now, is has a single 3012HO in a hybrid loading bass box, with a 18 sound 6ND mid and a tweeter, all at 101 dB/W 400W RMS 8 Ohms. Overall size 400mm wide, 370mm deep and 480mm high. Weight is approximately 26 lbs (12 Kgs).
Very loud cab, easily keeps up with drummer and an easy one hand lift. when finished I will put the details on TB. It won't sound quite a big below 60 Hz (due to the LF drivers in the fearfuls) but the box is much smaller and overall 5 to 6 dB louder (like two fearfuls!). The bass loading controls the cone movement more efficiently so it can make an HO in this box seem almost as bassy as an LF in a reflex.
I dont care for that HO driver personally. I had one (actually a pair of 112s) in an LDS 112 and there is no comparison of that box to a fEARful 12/6. The 12/6 is way louder, way lower, probably not as sensitive though. Also the HO definitely had more high mids than I personally prefer so adding the 18sound 6 inch mid to that seems like ALOT of upper mids to me, more than I would want.
However...
Sounds like you are building a different box and it could very well be that the HO would sound alot better in a different enclosure than the one I heard it in.
There's just a certain depth that you can get out of using more speakers and feeding them power well below their limits, that you can't really get by taking fewer speakers and driving them harder. Now, sometimes you might want that "pushed to the limits" sound, but it's a lot trickier with bass than it is with guitar. So you have to find that balance point at the volumes you are going to need. In my experience, in a more or less typical classic rock setting, that is going to happen somewhere in the neighborhood of a "modern" but traditional 2x15 setup.
The HO is way "louder" than an LF and significantly more sensitive above 60 Hz. You can attenuate the 18 sound mid in the fearful to match but you cant make the LF louder...
The 18 sound mid is crossed over from the HO around 1000 Hz so although the lower and main mid frequencies will come from the HO, the nasty rising response and lack of dispersion is prevented by the 18 sound taking over which has a smoother and flatter response than the HO. the other benefit us mating it to the HO is no attenuation is required for the 18 sound driver. this is what makes this so sensitive.
It will not be as bassy in the 40 Hz region as an equivalent fearful but it is only a 36 litre box....
Chef
In Memoriam
True Story.
I used to have a plaque over my workstation that said
"Good, fast, cheap: pick two."
I used to have a plaque over my workstation that said
"Good, fast, cheap: pick two."
Chef
In Memoriam
For me, the smallest cab I've ever felt was "giggable" was the Thunderchild112.
I prefer the TC115 though.
I prefer the TC115 though.
+1
This sounds like a kick ass cab. If a similar product was to be sold on the GC floor they would charge double the manufacturing cost to meet their margins... Putting it way out of most people price range.
+1
This is part of why I dont care for Markbass cabs.
+1
See I love the attack of the upper mids the 18 sound gives me, but they would be pointless if the low end extension wasnt there as well.
I play Classic Rock with a MarkBass 121P Combo - and it is loud enough for ANY indoor gig less than an auditorium. I never even turn it up past 11-12 o'clock! If you have a corner to put it in, it will shake the room. I have even played outdoors with it.
For the time I really need more output, I stack it with a Schroeder 1212L cabinet that is nearly the same size and weight with 2 more 12s. Blammo - 500W and 3 x 12s - it is all you will ever need.
For the time I really need more output, I stack it with a Schroeder 1212L cabinet that is nearly the same size and weight with 2 more 12s. Blammo - 500W and 3 x 12s - it is all you will ever need.
That may be all you ever need, but I wouldnt consider that combo gig worthy for my needs. Same for the full range 12's. Due to the limitations of the combo's internal 12, you are not gaining any more SPL than a 410 or so. I have a drummer that would bury me with that rig.
Different strokes and all.
Will do! This is only designed to be a small gig rig for Jazz and some pubs. My larger rig will do the clubs and stages. I just needed something to do one trip from car and with the loudness to cut through the mix. It would also be fine if there was PA support as a perfect little monitor.
