Smooth Jazz is Jazz

[brianrost]

Well soprano sax, so...

How about Sidney Bechet? He was Coltrane's inspiration to take up the soprano.

Steve Lacy (RIP) and Jane Ira Bloom have their own sound, they don't make it sound like an oboe like so many who came along after Coltrane.

And there's always Captain Beefheart

 

[Tom Bomb]

You'll often find me in the mosh-pit, at a smooth jazz gig. There's always loads of space

I think this track, back then, got me over the line. I've always loved it — suits the yacht rock sensibilities. Laid back, groovin'.

​

 

[Bass-ball]

Branford doesn't sound like that.
Wayne Shorter sure doesn't sound like that.
Trane didn't sound like that.

For me, it's the G man....

I get that. For example, as much as I love Spyro Gyra, Jay Beckenstein's sax always sounds a little bit shrill to me on recorded versions. I could listen to Jeff Kashiwa, Boney James, Grover, Koz, you name it, but for whatever reason, Beckenstein records himself in a strange way, or maybe uses a brand of sax that's a bit grittier, or maybe his reeds are special to him, or something. There's a distinct tone (and note choice) when I hear him and I can instantly pick him out. And it's not as pleasant as the others I mentioned. To me, anyway. Still, love their music despite that.

People say similar things about EVH or Jimmy Page or whoever like that too, so I guess it isn't too off the wall to think that.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Sturgeon's Law always applies.

 

[WG Plum]

Well soprano sax, so...

The Devil's whistle.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Branford doesn't sound like that.
Wayne Shorter sure doesn't sound like that.
Trane didn't sound like that.

For me, it's the G man....

How about Sidney Bechet? He was Coltrane's inspiration to take up the soprano.

Steve Lacy (RIP) and Jane Ira Bloom have their own sound, they don't make it sound like an oboe like so many who came along after Coltrane.

And there's always Captain Beefheart

I was kidding

 

[robcrozierbass1]

This video illustrates something that has been on my mind lately. Smooth Jazz is often dismissed as formulaic are simply background music, but the same can be sound about acoustic Jazz or Classical, which are often employed for atmosphere at swank events. I am not saying a fair amount of Smooth Jazz is not lightweight, what I am saying is that all music should be listened to seriously before making any judgement.

To me, it's all about the intention behind it. I feel like some smooth jazz tracks are nice and funky (and bearable) while other tracks are too commercial for me. It's all boils down to taste. The main problem that straight ahead jazz players have with smooth jazz is the sellout. Smooth jazz sells more records because it's catchy. I'll admit I've been adding some smoothish originals to my shows to have fun playing in some different styles AND to appeal to clients. If you give people a beat that they can dance (or relate) to then they feel a part of it. If you play a ton of uptempo bebop for a non jazz crowd you can see the eyebrows pinch together in confusion. Smooth jazz or funky jazz can sweeten things up.

 

[Watchootognbout]

My main problem with him is he sounds like someone squeezing the air out of a balloon. Seriously, his tone makes me cringe.

He basically takes an R&B song like a Luther Vandross tune,replaces the vocals with his sax sound.

It seems every phrase he plays is saying "Please Baby!...PLEASE!......Pleeeeaaaasse baby.....pleeeaase!....I waaaaaant you...I Neeeeeeed you...

 

[brianrost]

The Devil's whistle.

No, that's the harmonica. Also known as the Misery Whistle.

 

[Bass-ball]

To me, it's all about the intention behind it. I feel like some smooth jazz tracks are nice and funky (and bearable) while other tracks are too commercial for me. It's all boils down to taste.

Indeed. The thing though is you can say this in just about any genre. I even have a small list going in OneNote somewhere of albums that I like cover-to-cover, and it's pretty short. There's always a throwaway track or five on virtually every album I have. Even my childhood love for Floyd, Zeppelin, Tull, and especially King Crimson - they all had tracks that I thought back then and even now are hot garbage.

The main problem that straight ahead jazz players have with smooth jazz is the sellout. Smooth jazz sells more records because it's catchy.

Absolutely this. And while I'm sort of in a 70s prog vein mood, remember what happened to the likes of Genesis, PF, Styx, Kansas, Yes, and other acts like them around 1980, when many of them were in their late 30s/early 40s? It was like they had some secret convention and everyone agreed to sell out, all at the same time. It's happened all over the place. The softer fusion-y guys went through the same thing I think, only around 1990, and here we are, with smooth jazz. I even remember hearing the Rippingtons once as background music on The Weather Channel and smirking.

Then again, sometimes "selling out" is the best thing that happens to a band. Look at Metallica. That eponymous 1990 album (or was it '91? can't remember) got more people into that genre than anything anyone did prior to it, and yet diehards of the 'classic thrash' before it call it "sellout."

So for me, even the label "sellout" doesn't mean much, just like "smooth jazz" or "elevator music" or whatever. We like what we like, and I'm not really concerned with what it's called.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Worth repeating. My sentiments, exactly.

… We like what we like, and [we're] not really concerned with what it's called.

 

[Pacman]

So for me, even the label "sellout" doesn't mean much, just like "smooth jazz" or "elevator music" or whatever. We like what we like, and I'm not really concerned with what it's called.

An old guitarist friend of mine used to say in order to sell out, you have to have something people want to buy.

 

[brianrost]

Who was the retired NBA player who played bass and cut smooth jazz albums? I remember reading about him years ago in Bass Player magazine.

 

[jjk2007]

Who was the retired NBA player who played bass and cut smooth jazz albums? I remember reading about him years ago in Bass Player magazine.

Wayman Tisdale...

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

So where does Chet fit in?
He's smooth.
He's jazz.

 

[TyBo]

Indeed. The thing though is you can say this in just about any genre. I even have a small list going in OneNote somewhere of albums that I like cover-to-cover, and it's pretty short. There's always a throwaway track or five on virtually every album I have. Even my childhood love for Floyd, Zeppelin, Tull, and especially King Crimson - they all had tracks that I thought back then and even now are hot garbage.



Absolutely this. And while I'm sort of in a 70s prog vein mood, remember what happened to the likes of Genesis, PF, Styx, Kansas, Yes, and other acts like them around 1980, when many of them were in their late 30s/early 40s? It was like they had some secret convention and everyone agreed to sell out, all at the same time. It's happened all over the place. The softer fusion-y guys went through the same thing I think, only around 1990, and here we are, with smooth jazz. I even remember hearing the Rippingtons once as background music on The Weather Channel and smirking.

Then again, sometimes "selling out" is the best thing that happens to a band. Look at Metallica. That eponymous 1990 album (or was it '91? can't remember) got more people into that genre than anything anyone did prior to it, and yet diehards of the 'classic thrash' before it call it "sellout."

So for me, even the label "sellout" doesn't mean much, just like "smooth jazz" or "elevator music" or whatever. We like what we like, and I'm not really concerned with what it's called.

Yeah. I recall George Benson being called a sellout when he came out with Breezin' (speaking of albums one likes from start to finish ). But I've seen him in interviews talking about how excited he was at the sound his combo was getting with the addition of a second keyboard player, which is the group with which he recorded that album. He was feeling that music, and so were a crap ton of other people. Also worth bearing in mind that he started out in R+B ... Breezin' was in some ways a return to his roots, with jazz flourishes. "If it sounds good it is good."

 

[Bass-ball]

Yeah. I recall George Benson being called a sellout when he came out with Breezin' (speaking of albums one likes from start to finish )...Breezin' was in some ways a return to his roots, with jazz flourishes. "If it sounds good it is good."

Breezin' is on the list. Used to cover "Affirmation" back in the day, in fact. Great album. I remember hearing the title track as a kid in the 70s and thinking it was such a great melody, though I didn't know the word "melody" yet.

George is also the inspiration for me to hum my basslines when I'm recording with headphones on. I believe he played guitar like that, so much so that they started mic'ing him doing that and using it occasionally.

Benson, Montgomery, and Bob James are to me the holy trinity of smooth jazz. And Grover isn't far behind (he collaborated with Bob James a lot, so I feel compelled to throw him in there). Bob James album "Three" is also on the cover-to-cover list.

 

[Tom Bomb]

They went after Louis —
It's a Wonderful World.

They went after Wes.
Make no nevermind​

​

 

[slagheap]

Yeah. I recall George Benson being called a sellout when he came out with Breezin' (speaking of albums one likes from start to finish ). But I've seen him in interviews talking about how excited he was at the sound his combo was getting with the addition of a second keyboard player, which is the group with which he recorded that album. He was feeling that music, and so were a crap ton of other people. Also worth bearing in mind that he started out in R+B ... Breezin' was in some ways a return to his roots, with jazz flourishes. "If it sounds good it is good."

Breezin' is such a tremendous album, a landmark. Transcends genres for sure.

 

[jerry]

Breezin' is such a tremendous album, a landmark. Transcends genres for sure.

The Tommy LiPuma \ Al Schmitt production on that album is superb.