The bottom line is that hit records result in pressure for more hit records. A lot of great musicians made some sorry music chasing hits and that was what truly tainted the notion of Smooth Jazz and was why I always learned more towards Fusion.
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Smooth Jazz is Jazz
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
The bottom line is that hit records result in pressure for more hit records. A lot of great musicians made some sorry music chasing hits and that was what truly tainted the notion of Smooth Jazz and was why I always learned more towards Fusion.
About all I can play on bass is 1-4-5 12-bar blues but I loved jazz/rock fusion back in the '70s and still do. Can't understand much of Coltrane and On the Corner is about the only Miles Davis I can follow. But Spiro Gyro, Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, Wayman Tisdale... nice. My tastes are not very sophisticated and jazz is generally over my event horizon. Whereas jazz/rock fusion maintains more regular tempos I can follow and pitch changes I can grok. I get it that the more musically advanced might find smooth jazz too smooth or low energy, but for us with more basic or simple musical development it can sound pretty sweet.
Yeah, I like them too. Though they're often labeled as "New Age" in some circles. They also tap Brian Hughes for guitar stuff a lot, and he's very much a smooth jazzer. Also Chuck Loeb (RIP) on occasion (who was part of Fourplay for a while, which is a pretty big deal in smooth jazz circles).
It seems like some people may have a problem with Kenny G because of how other people have classified him.
This right here. The hate for him is so strange, and it doesn't take posting obscure JLF songs he was on from the 80s to illustrate that the guy is talented. He also kind of put The Rippingtons on the map too, with his contributions on their debut album, specifically "She Likes to Watch." Oh well. I guess some people needed a scapegoat when smooth jazz came along. Maybe they thought it was Muzak all over again or something. And I can see why someone might think that, but to me they sound worlds apart.
And playing bass in that setting I just absolutely love. Lots of fun, and still challenging in its own way. I pretty much gave up on rock for it and have zero regrets.
Kenny G gets blasted because he's probably the most successful guy ever in that style. His label claims he's sold 75 million records worldwide.
Other smooth players? George Benson 12 million, Dave Sanborn 4 million, Spyro Gyra 2 million
Jazz guys? Miles Davis 9 million (6.5 million for just Kind of Blue), John Coltrane 3 million, Dave Brubeck 2 milllion, Herbie Hancock 3 million (including 2 million for just Headhunters and Future Shock!) Duke Ellington 233 thousand
Rock guys? Elvis sold 162 million, the Beates 236 million, Michael Jackson 300 million.
P.S. Kenny hasn't had a million seller since his 1999 Christmas album. His sales dropped precipitously after that, nothing over 10 thousand copies since 2006
Other smooth players? George Benson 12 million, Dave Sanborn 4 million, Spyro Gyra 2 million
Jazz guys? Miles Davis 9 million (6.5 million for just Kind of Blue), John Coltrane 3 million, Dave Brubeck 2 milllion, Herbie Hancock 3 million (including 2 million for just Headhunters and Future Shock!) Duke Ellington 233 thousand
Rock guys? Elvis sold 162 million, the Beates 236 million, Michael Jackson 300 million.
P.S. Kenny hasn't had a million seller since his 1999 Christmas album. His sales dropped precipitously after that, nothing over 10 thousand copies since 2006
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To be clear, I wasn't stereotyping, and I wasn't suggesting that jazz musicians aren't "conscious of their audience." In fact, "their audience" is what I'm talking about. And I'm not saying the players or their audience are intentionally trying to separate themselves just to be elitist. What I do mean is there are niche segments of jazz that don't translate to the average listener, i.e., the music is "out there" beyond what people generally can get into. Some of the players in these niche segments choose to stay there, while others choose to make more widely accessible music. Some of the fans of these niche segments choose to listen exclusively or primarily to the music of the niche segments, while others are more willing to listen to more popular forms of the genre, e.g., "smooth jazz." That's all I'm saying. And other genres of music have their own niche segments as well.
Years ago, IIRC, I read or heard somewhere that Kenny G himself called his music "freeform," and he seemed somewhat amused by the furor created by others categorizing him as a jazz artist.
I posted that because of the folks that may not have heard him in any other context and may not choose to listen to him because of the talk about him. Not to prove that he is talented but to open up the opportunity to hear him, in a different light. Plus at that time, Jeff Lorber who lived here was tearing up our town with that band!
Smooth Jazz wasn't even a genre until Clear Channel Radio coined it that for their radio stations. They forced contemporary jazz artists to conform to that style or they wouldn't get radio play. Those stations lost support and went bye bye!! CD101.9 was a HUGE staple in NYC. Gone. We had a station here in Hampton Roads, VA that went away but thank goodness for Hampton University They have a radio station that plays the music as well as Soul Street on Saturdays and Latin Music on Sundays. We also have another station that plays more straight ahead stuff that is hosted by a well known in the area drummer named Jae Sinnett.
Speaking of the Jeff Lorber group, anybody ever hear anything more from Danny Wilson the bass player with Jeff on a few albums?
We have two stations here that I know of keeping the flame alive.
This one has widened out as far what they play as Jazz...
1) KMHD Jazz Radio
And at different times of the day this one does straight ahead, bop, big band and such.
2) Listen to KBOO Online
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,405
- 9,848
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
My main problem with him is he sounds like someone squeezing the air out of a balloon. Seriously, his tone makes me cringe.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,405
- 9,848
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
Well soprano sax, so...
Branford doesn't sound like that.
Wayne Shorter sure doesn't sound like that.
Trane didn't sound like that.
For me, it's the G man....
Well soprano sax, so...
