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SMV extorted by Spanish Border Patrol!

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#81
In Victor and Stanley's defense, did they or did they not say the 'police' did not 'speak' english?? Okay, then how are they supposed to know 'exactly' why they are being stopped and fined?? In their view, without a 'clear' explanation, it seemed like 'extortion'! At the end of the day, I'm quite sure there will be further updates to these raw, on the spot, videos!
 
#83
zeb_bass said:
What happend is that the bus driver is charged with a working time violation he had past month and he was fined for it € 2,000.00! That´s it!
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Hmm. So the bus driver should have paid the fine himself. We don't know the law there, so we can't say if it's OK or not to check the resting driver, but my guess is, it's perfectly legal.
I was a passenger in a car on a Belgian motorway a few years ago that was being driven by a French citizen. We were pulled over for speeding by Belgian police. The police escorted us to a rest stop a few hundred feet away where the fine was paid on the spot, to the policeman, at his patrol car. The rest stop had an ATM in case you didn't have the cash. The driver said it was legit- standard procedure for foreigners, as stated by zeb_bass. Hmmm........
 
#84
DWBass said:
In Victor and Stanley's defense, did they or did they not say the 'police' did not 'speak' english?? Okay, then how are they supposed to know 'exactly' why they are being stopped and fined?? In their view, without a 'clear' explanation, it seemed like 'extortion'! At the end of the day, I'm quite sure there will be further updates to these raw, on the spot, videos!
Click to expand...

I guess you consider that not knowing the exact reason why you're being fined because you don't understand a foreign language is a reasonable excuse to say that the Basque Police is extorting you. That is not ethical and is pretty disrespectful.

The description for the first video says (textually):

7/16/09 - We were traveling from France into the Basque region of Spain when we got stopped at the border by the police. They put something under our bus tires so we couldn't leave and then demanded $2000 Euro (about $2800. US) from us. The border police questioned our two drivers, made them produce all kinds of records, closed down the office threatening to leave us there, and even pretended that they couldn't speak English. They kept us for over an hour. All of our paperwork was up to date and legal, but In the end, we had to pay them the money. It was pretty unbelievable. Thanx to the iPhone, it was all recorded. (This video contains profanity.)

It seems that that the one fined was the bus driver and he cheated them to pay it for him saying that there was no reason to be fined.
 
#85
There are a number of laws on the books here in the states about drivers (especially commercial (ie truck, bus) drivers) being required to sleep a certain # of hours a day, in order to help prevent fatigue-caused accidents. Unfortunately, there isn't at the moment any real method of determining whether or not said drivers are actually following the rules. IIRC the drivers are supposed to keep logs of how many hours on the road/miles driven and what hours they are at 'rest', but logs can be falsified, and often are. It seems the Europeans have found a way to make it easier for the police to check on such information, plus make it harder to falsify data.

I was a USAF security police officer assigned for three years to Hahn AB in Germany (now a commercial airfield, the military part of the base being closed down years ago) and can tell you that even 25 years ago, European law regarding driving a motor vehicle were a lot more stringent than the US rules, even today. For example, even back then they had laws requiring you to wear seat belts - and if you weren't wearing a seat belt and were involved in an accident - even if the accident wasn't your fault - your insurance company did not have to pay you anything for losses, hospital time, etc. (Reasoning was that if you had had a seat belt on, you wouldn't have been thrown around inside your vehicle, could have kept better control of your vehicle, etc.) Americans, who are used to a much 'looser hand' as far as laws of the road, tend to freak out a little when confronted with the differences in traffic laws, especially when pulled over by German police for something that wouldn't even be an infraction here stateside... been there, done that, got the patches on my Levi jacket to prove it...
 
#87
Thanks for explaining the laws better to us, however, it is a shakedown no doubt about it. Just like our speeding laws here. Its a money making scheme. It doesnt matter what country it is in. There are lots of laws like this here in the US. How does handing over thousands of dollars make the offense suddenly forgiven? Why do they need "their" money now? Because they might not see it? If its not a shakedown, then the driver should have been put in jail for such an "egregious crime". Its BS and it doesnt matter where it is, it could be in the US, its still a money making scheme.

And yes, I know...thats the way it is and nothing will change it. Just complaining =)
 
#88
So were the drivers contracted by SMV promoters for overseas, or drivers that they use consistantly(ie; in the States too)? If the drivers were contracted for that tour alone then it is feasable that the guys got a driver with something on his record that they were unaware of.

Either way "IF" the show crew (Stanley,Vic and Roadcrew) had to pay the fine, they got jacked. Either by the police or the hired driver. And "IF" the hired driver was correct in his paperwork we'll never know.

Those of you in the know, is it difficult to keep specific drivers on your crew, when it comes to overseas touring? At least that way you'd know the drivers were in order at all times.

I don't know. This is very strange.

God Bless, Ray
 
#90
If you watch the video again you will see them talking about the drivers and the rotation. They clearly said that the Spanish police were claiming that the drivers had an infraction but that it was not the case and they were making it up to make some cash.

Yes not following the law about driver rest time is a punishable offense. And it is clear to me the tour manager understands the law. ( Probably ran into this problem before ) He is however disputing that the driver actually had an infraction. Even stating that they had 2 drivers ( as per the law ) and the police ran the non drivers as well. ( even tho they shouldn't have )

Just because the Spanish police had a plausable reason to take the money doesn't mean they had a right to take the money. Lets face it if your a cop and trying to steal money from someone aren't you going to do your best to make it seem legit to cover your behind.

It is clear that everyone on the bus thinks they are getting ripped off. It's just as clear that the tour manager understands what the cops are saying but not agreeing with their data.

So in the end it may come down to there was in fact an infraction and everyone on the bus just didn't understand it. And it is also possible that they were in fact getting robbed by the police.

Might be a good idea to wait to see the eventual outcome rather than taking up a side and trying to defend the police or Vic and the boys.

On a side note to the guy that recommended watching the tour de France to see how small EU roads are. I've been watching the tour and based upon that I would like to respectfully suggest that the safety problem on EU roads isn't so much about tired drivers as it is about people randomly walking into roads without looking and trying to chase down fast moving bicycles like free roaming packs of wild dogs.

JMO.

-Rav
 
#91
Rav, it's a shame hear those affirmations about the european laws, what is and what is not right, the size of the roads and all that kind of nonsenses.
Maybe we can design a people's jury. Here's a bunch of possible members:
 
#92
If the tour manager knew everything was legit, and was present they got took.
A logical thinking person would tend to believe that if your managing a tour of foreign land/people you'd make absolute that EVERYTHING was perfect. Common Sense has me leaning more toward corruption. Either that or the tour managers/promotors are completely incompitent in which case that's less likely. Imagine those guys coming up missing or something on the far end of the spectrum. Not wise for a tour manager, and I'd think that'd effectively ruin your career.



God Bless, Ray
 
#94
DWBass said:
That was crazy! They mentioned something about the driver/drivers can only drive 4 hours and then rest and have all that documented which one driver said they had all the proper documentation. Wow! What a way to start an international incident! When the American authorities see that, I think some heads are going to roll!
Click to expand...

If you think that's a likely posibility then I think that you're delusional.
 
#96
Rav said:
If you watch the video again you will see them talking about the drivers and the rotation. They clearly said that the Spanish police were claiming that the drivers had an infraction but that it was not the case and they were making it up to make some cash.

Yes not following the law about driver rest time is a punishable offense. And it is clear to me the tour manager understands the law. ( Probably ran into this problem before ) He is however disputing that the driver actually had an infraction. Even stating that they had 2 drivers ( as per the law ) and the police ran the non drivers as well. ( even tho they shouldn't have )

Just because the Spanish police had a plausable reason to take the money doesn't mean they had a right to take the money. Lets face it if your a cop and trying to steal money from someone aren't you going to do your best to make it seem legit to cover your behind.

It is clear that everyone on the bus thinks they are getting ripped off. It's just as clear that the tour manager understands what the cops are saying but not agreeing with their data.

So in the end it may come down to there was in fact an infraction and everyone on the bus just didn't understand it. And it is also possible that they were in fact getting robbed by the police.

Might be a good idea to wait to see the eventual outcome rather than taking up a side and trying to defend the police or Vic and the boys.

On a side note to the guy that recommended watching the tour de France to see how small EU roads are. I've been watching the tour and based upon that I would like to respectfully suggest that the safety problem on EU roads isn't so much about tired drivers as it is about people randomly walking into roads without looking and trying to chase down fast moving bicycles like free roaming packs of wild dogs.

JMO.

-Rav
Click to expand...

Everything might be in order on the SMV tour, but the police check the drivers logs for the past 28 days so the infraction that the driver had can be from a time before the tour.
 
#97
Implosion said:
Everything might be in order on the SMV tour, but the police check the drivers logs for the past 28 days so the infraction that the driver had can be from a time before the tour.
Click to expand...


That still indicates a failure on someones part at the SMV tour. Those that set the tour up have to know that they check the drivers for 28 days. So in other words if that is the case then who ever hired or assigned the drivers sent a driver out with an infraction. Again not very wise on their part. Those people have to know the law.

God Bless, Ray
 
#99
It seemed like extortion at the start but it doesn't really matter. They found a violation, regardless of when or how legit it was, and they were fined.

Know the laws (and the language) before entering another country. All being a foreigner does is give them more reason to pull you over. "Sorry, I didn't know" doesn't work in the states either.

I liked how Vic was just very humble during the whole thing. See that wad of cash that he was counting, that just means they have to sell 50 more t-shirts at the next stop.
 
#100
LilRay said:
That still indicates a failure on someones part at the SMV tour. Those that set the tour up have to know that they check the drivers for 28 days. So in other words if that is the case then who ever hired or assigned the drivers sent a driver out with an infraction. Again not very wise on their part. Those people have to know the law.

God Bless, Ray
Click to expand...

Probably the sub-contractor of a sub-contractor of a sub-contractor. The way of the world today :scowl:
 
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