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So, college?

+1 to doing internships. Sure, summers are fun to have off from school, but most entry level jobs now want to hire someone with 3-5 years of experience in their field (yeah, figure that one out). The only chance most college grads have in landing a job is by doing internships first.
 
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Every class is a purchase. Make sure you're getting something for your money. After all, you'll be paying for it for a long time. Concentrate on what you're there for and make it count. Parties and meeting people are actually fairly important, but they have to come second or third. Putting beer and b**bies first has done plenty of people in.

Don't go pay to go to school for anything you could learn without needing a degree.

Also- never carry more than you can eat and always use protection.

YES to internships.

The world is evil and it will try to make you cynical. Do not let it.
 
I taught a few college classes and there is some sound advice in this thread.
  • Go to class, get to know your teachers, even the ones you think are worthless because as stated, some are amazing researchers
  • Don't join a fraternity your freshman year. Some schools have great Greek systems that HELP/mentor students as well as have fun, play sports, support the community...and then there are the others.
  • Have fun, but remember that every day isn't a weekend. Avoid shots, avoid beer bongs, especially avoid putting tequila in a beer bong. (3 deaths while I was in school)
  • Be respectful of the ladies. Even a school of 25K students is a small community in which your reputation counts.
  • The connections you make in college might possibly drive your future. Working with a global top 5 company right now....3 of the department's 5 members all went to the same school. All VP's, all worth 7 figs, all under 35.
  • You can go anywhere with a degree in Finance, Engineering, Chemistry or Biology. Art History is great, so is Philosophy....the world needs educated baristas. In all seriousness, if you go that route you better be brilliant and thinking MCATS or GMAT and taking the requisites.
  • If you have the means, graduate, work 2-3 years, get your MBA. I don't have one personal friend that followed that route making less than $250K.
Good luck, have fun, and don't feel pressured to know what you will do with the rest of your life on the first day of class. There is a good chance you will switch majors and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
 
Don't fall behind. You have a lot more freedom (not to attend classes, etc.). Also, remember, most class grades are based solely on the final exam. It's easy to say "I'll do it tomorrow". DON'T!!!!

I agree with the bottom line of this, but one nitpick; Classes where the whole grade is based on one exam are rare to nonexistent in the US (lots of European schools still do this, I understand). Many schools have policies were profs are not allowed to have any one assessment count for more than 30 or 35% of the grade. That way a good student doesn't flunk over having one bad day. But this fact reinforces bulldog's advice; don't think you can slack through a term and then pull off a great grade by somehow acing the exam. Consistency counts.

Some notes about partying: Don't assume that you can get away with it, just because others seem to be doing it and still getting through their studies. That's misleading because: 1) Some of those kids have jobs waiting for them when they graduate, thanks to family. 2) Many of those kids are in fluff majors. I taught 3rd year engineering for one semester at a Big Ten university. My students were serious. I also taught a couple sections of freshman at the same time.

I believe there was a study done of the much-ballyhooed campus "hookup culture" which concluded that most of the students involved were legacy students from well-off families. For them college was, at most, a rite of passage where they partied away until stepping into the cushy job sugar daddy had waiting for them. First-generation students and those from less wealthy backgrounds turn out to be relatively sensible, get good grades and limit their partying.

Now for my opinion as an old fart: A large state university is an elite college hidden within a giant party school. The elite college is like a source of wealth (intellectual, career, etc.) that you can stuff your pockets with, but you have to seek it out and grab it. Sometimes it means being a PITA, such as banging on your department or the registrar's office to get you into a course section that you need in order to stay on track. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The things you can look for and dig up are: The meaty majors, the hard courses (within your limits, don't overload yourself first semester), research projects that you can join, etc.

This is an excellent point. We're very used to "ranking" schools. Those rankings aren't totally meaningless, but they shouldn't be taken too seriously. The way faculty hiring works, is that in every year's job market there might be two or three dozen positions opening up in your particular specialization across the country; and departments hire for the best "fit" to their particular needs, not on any absolute objective scale of "quality." And you may well have over a hundred candidates, mostly new-minted PhDs, applying for those couple dozen jobs, so schools really get their pick of the best, even lower-ranked schools. What that means is that the guy who gets the state university job is not necessarily any less of a teacher or scholar than the guy who gets the Ivy League job; it's just that the Ivy League school thought that guy was a better "fit" for reasons of their own. The state university faculty are every bit as good, especially when it comes to teaching, as the "elite" school faculty.

Where you get more of a difference is the student body. Higher-ranked schools will generally have a more ambitious student body, because they were harder to get into. That creates a different culture. Nevertheless, you have low-achieving students and high-achieving students in any school. I've taught at Southern New Hampshire University (you may have seen the TV ads for their massive online programs), which was the worst school I've been associated with. I had students admit to me they barely managed to graduate high school, and there they were in college (and those not the worst students I had). Even there, though, I had some great students. Ambitious, smart, hard-working - could have succeeded in an Ivy League if they'd had the opportunity. There just weren't very many of them. Using the same grading standards, at Notre Dame (which tends to come in around #20, give or take, in the rankings), I found about a third of students earning As, a third Bs, and a third Cs, and an F was almost unheard of. At the University of New Hampshire (around #100, give or take), it's maybe 20% As, 40% or so Bs, 30% Cs, and you get a handful of Fs each term. SNHU was maybe 10% As, 20% Bs, 50% Cs, and 10-20% Fs (these are approximate, I know the numbers don't add up exactly).

What that means for students is this; if you're an ambitious person who wants to learn a lot and get the most out of your education, an important piece of that is going to be building a circle of like-minded ambitious student friends. At an elite school that's pretty easy to find. At more regular school, you have to hunt a bit harder to find classmates who are like that. But they're there. And again, the faculty are a major asset if you USE them, beyond just attending classes.
 
I agree with the bottom line of this, but one nitpick; Classes where the whole grade is based on one exam are rare to nonexistent in the US (lots of European schools still do this, I understand). Many schools have policies were profs are not allowed to have any one assessment count for more than 30 or 35% of the grade. That way a good student doesn't flunk over having one bad day. But this fact reinforces bulldog's advice; don't think you can slack through a term and then pull off a great grade by somehow acing the exam. Consistency counts.

In my experience - outside of lab based classes, exams counted for at least 60%, typically at least 75-80%, though I've had a number which were 100% based on the exam. All in all, it varies a lot between university, course and year of study!


This is an excellent point. We're very used to "ranking" schools. Those rankings aren't totally meaningless, but they shouldn't be taken too seriously. The way faculty hiring works, is that in every year's job market there might be two or three dozen positions opening up in your particular specialization across the country; and departments hire for the best "fit" to their particular needs, not on any absolute objective scale of "quality." And you may well have over a hundred candidates, mostly new-minted PhDs, applying for those couple dozen jobs, so schools really get their pick of the best, even lower-ranked schools. What that means is that the guy who gets the state university job is not necessarily any less of a teacher or scholar than the guy who gets the Ivy League job; it's just that the Ivy League school thought that guy was a better "fit" for reasons of their own. The state university faculty are every bit as good, especially when it comes to teaching, as the "elite" school faculty.

While I agree that rankings are largely irrelevant, more prestigious schools do tend to hire more prolific academics, who in turn push their PhD students to produce more papers too - in both cases increasing the likelihood of pulling in more funding. This is a major bonus for the department in which they work and is a major plus for any hiring department. Over here it varies a bit, while some lecturing positions are listed as such, it's quite often people who attain a fellowship (either from outside the university or directly from the university - either way, this is largely based on publication history) who tend to get transitioned from that fellowship position into a junior lectureship.

Though it's worth stating most of my experience has been in research-heavy, instead of teaching-heavy environments.

It's also a less than perfect system, not everything generates a high impact research paper and much of your progression depends on your areas of interest and experience being the flavour of the month.
 
Work AND party. It's pretty simple. The tricky part is prioritizing which is important, and sticking to that.

College is 4 years of your life. Developmentally precious years. If you are a bookworm and don't embrace the college experience, you will regret it. I promise you. That being said, if you party until you flunk/drop out, you'll regret that too!

I have my Master's Degree, and tried to live life to the fullest through ALL my higher ed. years. I look back and have few regrets. If anything, I regret not being more social!

Oh and despite my partying and copious alcohol consumption, I completed grad school with a 3.96.
 
In my experience - outside of lab based classes, exams counted for at least 60%, typically at least 75-80%, though I've had a number which were 100% based on the exam. All in all, it varies a lot between university, course and year of study!

Was that in US or European schools? My impression has been that a single high-stakes exam was more of a European thing, but maybe I'm mistaken.

While I agree that rankings are largely irrelevant, more prestigious schools do tend to hire more prolific academics, who in turn push their PhD students to produce more papers too - in both cases increasing the likelihood of pulling in more funding. This is a major bonus for the department in which they work and is a major plus for any hiring department. Over here it varies a bit, while some lecturing positions are listed as such, it's quite often people who attain a fellowship (either from outside the university or directly from the university - either way, this is largely based on publication history) who tend to get transitioned from that fellowship position into a junior lectureship.

Though it's worth stating most of my experience has been in research-heavy, instead of teaching-heavy environments.

It's also a less than perfect system, not everything generates a high impact research paper and much of your progression depends on your areas of interest and experience being the flavour of the month.

I think there's more shaking out over the course of the tenure process or making senior hires than in the job market for recent PhDs. It may also vary by field. Someone who does lots of high-level publication may get hired across to an elite research school as an associate or full prof, and a new hire that's not as aggressive about publishing may not make tenure. There's very little comparable movement for people who happen to excel at teaching. I certainly agree about "flavor of the month." In medieval history lately (my field), almost every job posting has wanted a specialist in the Mediterranean, which you hardly ever heard 10 years ago. My interpretation is that since 9/11, they need people who can teach the Middle East, and since they found there aren't enough Middle East specialists, "Mediterranean" has become the code for someone who at least has a foot in the Muslim world, via things like the Crusades or Reconquista Spain. If you work in northern or eastern Europe, you're kind of stuck.
 
Was that in US or European schools? My impression has been that a single high-stakes exam was more of a European thing, but maybe I'm mistaken.

All european, but it varies a lot. I certainly had some that were 100% and some (mainly earlier UG) where it was only 60%. It does vary a lot depending on school and country. That degree of variability seems true across the board too - for instance, some european countries have a PhD thesis which is simply their publications sandwiched between introductory and concluding chapters. Some have a public defence, an hour or so of being grilled by committee and potentially questions from anyone else too, my school has one behind closed doors, generally two, sometimes three examiners and a viva that goes on for 3-4 hours (but they've also been known to run over a couple days). Some are starting to take a more Americanised approach by including taught course requirements in the earlier stages of the PhD too.


I think there's more shaking out over the course of the tenure process or making senior hires than in the job market for recent PhDs. It may also vary by field. Someone who does lots of high-level publication may get hired across to an elite research school as an associate or full prof, and a new hire that's not as aggressive about publishing may not make tenure. There's very little comparable movement for people who happen to excel at teaching. I certainly agree about "flavor of the month." In medieval history lately (my field), almost every job posting has wanted a specialist in the Mediterranean, which you hardly ever heard 10 years ago. My interpretation is that since 9/11, they need people who can teach the Middle East, and since they found there aren't enough Middle East specialists, "Mediterranean" has become the code for someone who at least has a foot in the Muslim world, via things like the Crusades or Reconquista Spain. If you work in northern or eastern Europe, you're kind of stuck.

Certainly a lot of shaking up, given that fellowships are so rare here (at least at the moment and in the current economic climate) they are generally a door into lecturing (without having to apply for a formally advertised lectureship). Tenure is certainly a funny thing here too. Certainly where I've been, there's been little interest in teaching quality. Well, certainly a lack of interest as they come in the door - more that they excel in research and develop their teaching skills. It does seem that those who go into positions which focus more on teaching can struggle to get into a teaching position at a research-oriented institute.

I can believe that one, we certainly saw an increase in particle physics (both theory and experimental) as CERN was starting to generate results. I dare say the theorists are a double positive because they are cheaper to keep too.
 
While this is very true for doctorates is it as bad for masters? Also, is there much of a difference between professional masters and thesis masters?
Good question. I like "minimal assumptions" estimates, so I would guess that attrition behaves like a half-life, i.e., with equal probability per unit time. Coursework is also a lot more cut and dried than thesis. But coursework has risks, such as your own personal situation turning in a direction that prevents you from finishing. This is one reason why I advise all grad students: Finish as quickly as possible, even at the expense of doing the most beautiful possible work. Finish, finish, finish.

Y'hear?
 
Good question. I like "minimal assumptions" estimates, so I would guess that attrition behaves like a half-life, i.e., with equal probability per unit time. Coursework is also a lot more cut and dried than thesis. But coursework has risks, such as your own personal situation turning in a direction that prevents you from finishing. This is one reason why I advise all grad students: Finish as quickly as possible, even at the expense of doing the most beautiful possible work. Finish, finish, finish.

Y'hear?

Finishing early is certainly key. Especially considering the "hire-young" trend in academia right now (well, when they're not stealing someone from elsewhere).
 
While this is very true for doctorates is it as bad for masters? Also, is there much of a difference between professional masters and thesis masters?

One thing to take into account, well, at least I think anyway.

While undergrad students will largely drop out due to failing courses, doctoral students rarely fail in the same way, attrition is certainly the word, IME. Quitting or running out of time, those are the death doors of the doctorate.

I'll have to look and see if I can find the stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if the fail/drop out rate is slightly higher during the undergraduate degrees than post-graduate work. If you've completed a degree with any competency, you can handle graduate school. A masters is another step up and the doctorate is just something entirely different. Heck, the beauty with a doctorate is that, even if everything you do fails, you can still draw information from it, you can still write your thesis - it becomes a case of explaining why things failed and why you pursued the ensuring routes that you did.

We don't really have comparable things here. Professional qualifications tend to be limited to certain fields, medicine, engineering, law etc. Non-professional masters come in a few flavours here, the classic taught + project dissertation (this can be stand alone or an "undergraduate masters") or one which is basically a year long project (MPhil, MRes). The year long project type masters can make more sense for someone who is going to continue down that line (for instance, some students need to complete an MPhil before entering a PhD program - the MPhil becomes comparable to the first year of PhD research).
 
Finishing early is certainly key. Especially considering the "hire-young" trend in academia right now (well, when they're not stealing someone from elsewhere).

That's certainly something I can agree with. I made the mistake of taking an extended project (basically talked into a collaboration that my supervisor had agreed with another academic, when I was the only PhD student to take it on), the extended project took up my "writing up" time. I then went straight to working in another lab - trying to write your thesis, while working full time+ , not great.

Hire young must be something more present in the US. While folks here will often go into a post doc straight after their PhD, fellowships and beyond are less hoarded by the fresh bloods.
 
So, I just got to college.

Any words of wisdom?

Please?
Put education first. You're paying for it now. (or maybe you have a free ride, I don't know).
Try to finish with over 3.0 when you graduate. This is a goal I really didn't give myself. At the time I graduated, the job market bottomed out and it was slim pickings. Employers with openings raised the bar on requirements and GPA was one way to weed out the bottom feeders. It's not illegal to make it a requirement to have a GPA over 3.0 or even 3.5 or whatever. I know experience and contacts/connections go a long way, but if you don't have that going for you, you don't want to hurt your future employment prospects because you goofed off or didn't put enough into studying/papers/tests/whatever.
Use tutors if you have to. It doesn't affect your grade and they are free, usually above-average students who get paid by the school to tutor fellow students.
Best wishes.
 
Out of interest.

Does GPA take into account the average over the entire course of the degree?

Over here the degree grading is usually based on either the final year or the final two years. However, employers still generally ask for a course transcript (which would list all your courses and grades). Our degree classifications are also much simplified - a First, Upper Second, Lower Second, Third and Ordinary.

First Class degrees are the absolute best, if I remember correctly there was only awarded in my graduating class. The Second Class degrees are the tipping point, usually an upper second (2:1) is the minimum requirement for grad school. Lower second's are still competitive to an extent, but are very unlikely to get into further education - especially without further experience. A third is still a degree, but I'm not sure how useful it really is. Gaining an Ordinary basically means you failed your final year, so you don't get your honours.
 
Hire young must be something more present in the US. While folks here will often go into a post doc straight after their PhD, fellowships and beyond are less hoarded by the fresh bloods.

I have no idea if it's more of an US thing, but it certainly seems present in Canada. I'm hoping this will help me to be honest as I will graduate somewhere around 26.
 
NCSU. I got accepted to Chapel Hill but they didn't have an Engineering program.

Hey, congrats on NC State! I just graduated and three of my friends are going there. Two of them are going into engineering and one of them even got a full scholarship...it's a great school! I almost applied to Chapel Hill, but didn't because it was A) A little bit out of my reach academically and B) pretty far away from home.

Some great advice in this thread too...I leave for college in five days, and it's much appreciated!
 
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