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So how long does it take for you to become a member whose opinion actually matters?

jmattbassplaya

jmattbassplaya

Supporting Member
Jan 13, 2008
11,843
9,860
#1
Sorry for the long title :D

Hey guys,

I am currently in the midst of joining a hard rock/classic rock cover band that is about to begin gigging out. Right now they have about 30 or so songs that are gig ready, and for the most part they are all popular songs by popular artists. However, some of their songs are what I consider 'b-sides' that will not go over well with most audiences (meaning they are too obscure, too mellow, too unknown, etc...).

So here's the problem - I'm a new member, and as such my influence over these guys is virtually nonexistent. I am also younger than these guys (by about 15 years), so I'm not sure how well they'd handle me suggesting that we need to replace about 4 or 5 songs with *insert a more popular alternative* in regards to music from 'their' decades.

I guess my question is this:

When are you no longer the new member, and when can you begin making suggestions about changes to important things (like the setlist)?
 
#2
1. You'll never know until you try. Voice your opinions, but be OK with it if your bandmates don't act on them.
2. Instead of trying to replace songs, suggest adding one or two that you want to play.
3. Start playing gigs -- you'll all learn very quickly which songs are win and which are fail.

Good luck!

edit: If your influence remains non-existent and you're not pleased about it, it's probably time to find a new band.
 
#3
I wouldn't try changing the setlist quite yet. Get your toes wet with this group. Learn the existing setlist first and see how your style jives with what they've got going on. Sometimes a fresh approach to an old song will go a long way.

Bring in new songs instead of replacing the old ones. You can never have enough songs on the list when you are in a cover band. Try to bring in at least a couple new songs each month.

Age doesn't matter. Your playing will dictate whether or not your suggestions will be listened to.
 
#6
I went through this recently when we'd added a new drummer. Good player, a cool guy---at first.

Somehow, within 6 weeks the guy was saying "I don't want to play this and I don't want to play that". All of a sudden I turned around and 4 or 5 of our biggest crowd pleasers were gone.

To my mind you don't say anything until at least after you've played the first gig and maybe even longer. If the band starts kicking around ideas about new music then have around 5 songs ready to present to them.

We (meaning my best friend/guatarist) let that drummer come in and have an equal say right off the bat. HUGE mistake. If you don't like some of the songs they're playing then that's too bad. Those are their songs, you just need to know them and play them well.

That doesn't mean you should never speak up but you should also understand that you're new and they don't really know you all that well. If you're perceived as pushy there will be a phone conversation about you after rehearsal and maybe an add goes in the next day for band looking for a new bass player.

Be patient.
 
#7
I'm the senior member in my band and no one has ever taken anything I say seriously.

In retrospect, that's probably for the best because I seem to suggest a lot of obscure B-side type stuff.
 
#8
Haysoochreesto said:
I went through this recently when we'd added a new drummer. Good player, a cool guy---at first.

Somehow, within 6 weeks the guy was saying "I don't want to play this and I don't want to play that". All of a sudden I turned around and 4 or 5 of our biggest crowd pleasers were gone.

To my mind you don't say anything until at least after you've played the first gig and maybe even longer. If the band starts kicking around ideas about new music then have around 5 songs ready to present to them.

We (meaning my best friend/guatarist) let that drummer come in and have an equal say right off the bat. HUGE mistake. If you don't like some of the songs they're playing then that's too bad. Those are their songs, you just need to know them and play them well.

That doesn't mean you should never speak up but you should also understand that you're new and they don't really know you all that well. If you're perceived as pushy there will be a phone conversation about you after rehearsal and maybe an add goes in the next day for band looking for a new bass player.

Be patient.
Click to expand...

As they say, this isn't my first rodeo :p

I wouldn't even bother with this band unless they were nice enough guys and were doing music I'm interested in - and by and large they are! There are just a few songs that seem questionable in a setlist that they(we?) are designing to be successful in a college town circuit. That said, I am planning on gigging with them first to see how well things go.

I guess what I'm trying to find is a nice balance. I don't want to seem pushy or anything, but I do want to feel comfortable voicing my concerns because I want us to be successful. I'm really not looking to take control of this band. I guess I'm just use to being the band leader and I'm having trouble taking a backseat.
 
#10
You won't know the impact of certain songs until after they have been played live. Seriously, my band does some slow and obscure songs, and they go over the best for some reason. Could be our other material is deadly boring, though :ninja: But give those songs a try first, and yeah do not replace but just add to a set list. My band made the mistake of dropping over 7 songs in the last year, and we still have to get around to replacing them :scowl:
 
#11
Like in any other form of business or sales you never really know what your customers (i.e. the audience) will like until you present your product. As Murphy would have it, it is seldom what you think it would be.

Sometimes you put your list together and think "This song is a sure thing! They'll love it!" Then you go play it and it's serious crickets time. The other way it works is "man this is kind of a sleeper" but the audience eats it up and just rocks out. Surprise win!

As for making a suggestion for songs, just do it. Look at it this way if your band usually plays 2 hours of music and you only have 2 hours of music to play, you're done. You HAVE to play everything. If however you play a 2 hour set but have 4 hours of material to choose from, those weaker songs will filter themselves out of the list. Even if there's one guy that's set on playing a particular tune you may have to compromise and play it, but you may be able to drop a few of his other weaker tunes since you have more music to choose from than one sets worth.
 
#12
jmattbassplaya said:
As they say, this isn't my first rodeo :p

I wouldn't even bother with this band unless they were nice enough guys and were doing music I'm interested in - and by and large they are! There are just a few songs that seem questionable in a setlist that they(we?) are designing to be successful in a college town circuit. That said, I am planning on gigging with them first to see how well things go.

I guess what I'm trying to find is a nice balance. I don't want to seem pushy or anything, but I do want to feel comfortable voicing my concerns because I want us to be successful. I'm really not looking to take control of this band. I guess I'm just use to being the band leader and I'm having trouble taking a backseat.
Click to expand...

There isn't a balance you need to find. You need to be productive as a contributing member of the new band that you're in.

So you've been the leader of a band before; yay. This isn't your band. If you think you can do better, then be a band leader and start up your own act. But being that's not the case then just go along for awhile and play your role.

Is it really that hard to pull back and just play the part you've been given?

Sorry, but my experience is that new guys don't work out. Especially those who think that they know better than the established group that's already together. GTFO. It really is that simple. Guys who show up and think they know it all are poison to an already successful band.

Do everyone a favor: just play your part and shut up.
 
#13
Haysoochreesto said:
There isn't a balance you need to find. You need to be productive as a contributing member of the new band that you're in.

So you've been the leader of a band before; yay. This isn't your band. If you think you can do better, then be a band leader and start up your own act. But being that's not the case then just go along for awhile and play your role.

Is it really that hard to pull back and just play the part you've been given?

Sorry, but my experience is that new guys don't work out. Especially those who think that they know better than the established group that's already together. GTFO. It really is that simple. Guys who show up and think they know it all are poison to an already successful band.

Do everyone a favor: just play your part and shut up.
Click to expand...

Little rough there, don't ya think? :hiding:

There is a balance to this. As far as I'm aware, I'm joining the band under the knowledge that I'm suppose to be an equal, contributing member to the group. Unless I'm getting paid to show up, play my part, and keep quiet then I'm going to search for my voice within the band. That said, I don't mind taking a back seat, but if my opinion means nothing and will continue to mean nothing then I won't bother with a band because I'm not an active member, but, rather, a hired hand.

That's the point of my question. Assuming I always show up, know the material, help with load-in and load-out, and all the other things any good member would do (which I always have and always will do), when exactly will my opinion begin to matter? At the end of the first rehearsal? After 3 months? A year? I'm not looking for a set in stone answer, but rather a guesstimate from the experiences of other TBers. Saying "shut up or GTFO" is unhelpful and says nothing about my specific situation.
 
#14
Maybe try one song at a time...see how it goes...don't pummel them with more than one because the other guys might have a certain comfort level with not learning new material---like a living room that does not want to change out it's old couch.

Baby steps, then see how it goes. Generation gaps can make a huge difference.
 
#15
ksandvik said:
Best is if you want to change something, come with another solution, if that one is better then it's accepted. It of course depends if the group socially works OK or not.
Click to expand...

+1
Comments are not just comments.
When you come up with something, be sure it's in a tone you'd like too. For me, this is the most important point.
You can try to be tactical with the critique-to-solution-length-ratio :p meaning, that when you criticise for 10 seconds, you should give new ideas (with good and specific arguments) for 30 seconds.
That has the effect, that when you finished speaking, they already forgot the critique you just mentioned and hopefully won't have sore feelings.

These psychological basics often work very well. In business management, constructive critique should be like: one bad point comes together with three good ones.
 
#16
aledeville said:
+1
Comments are not just comments.
When you come up with something, be sure it's in a tone you'd like too. For me, this is the most important point.
You can try to be tactical with the critique-to-solution-length-ratio :p meaning, that when you criticise for 10 seconds, you should give new ideas (with good and specific arguments) for 30 seconds.
That has the effect, that when you finished speaking, they already forgot the critique you just mentioned and hopefully won't have sore feelings.

These psychological basics often work very well. In business management, constructive critique should be like: one bad point comes together with three good ones.
Click to expand...

I'll definitely be sure to give this a try :)

Again guys, I'm not looking to rework the whole setlist. I really like what we have going on right now. There's just a few songs that I think are going to be weak - but we'll just have to wait and see how they work out on an actual gig.
 
#18
Id say after your first gig with them. That seems reasonable to me. And if the audience reacts badly to any of the tunes youd like to replace, you can use that as an example to strenghten your suggestion. In our band, everytime a "matter" comes up, we go 'round in a circle, each giving their opinions, comments, solutions etc. Then debate the best choice, and somehow make a decision. And everyone of us has a song or two on the setlist that we despise playing for whatever reason, but they're tunes that the crowd wants....expects to hear, so they stay. Thats more of a business must, than an artisic one. We still bitch and moan about these songs that we hate, but mostly cuz its just fun to bitch!
 
#19
Our covers band has in my opinion some stinkers in the set list, but I still grit the ol' teeth and play them because the crowd likes them. In fact some of them I like now as I play them in my own (crap) style! Just be respectful with your suggestions and you will be fine. I'm one of the founders of the band, I'm 47,6'3" been there 17 years and they still don't listen to me!!!! Its all music!
 
#20
My band liked my input right away. They wanted a member when I auditioned, and my interest in what the band plays is motivational to them. The only reason I won't play a song another member suggests is a moral reason (I.E. I wouldn't want someone I know seeing me play it, or it is an opinion I am dead-set against)

I say play all the songs, let the members know your concerns, suggest songs to add to the pot. You can always change the set list between gigs, just have enough songs to work with.
 

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