So,....If I Were to Ask a SERIOUS Question,.....

[bassinplace]

I don't like buying musical instruments online. The reason being if I'm going to buy something, I want to be able to play it first. If it means I have to pay a little bit extra to a brick and mortar store for the ability to do so, that is totally worth it to me.

I support these stores because I want them to still be around when I want to buy an instrument and not have my only option being to buy something sight unseen.

 

[Zitch]

I know there was a lot to read there.....but if you guys could help me out. What color bass are you most likely to buy.

Royal Blue followed by White followed by Orange.

Good read in the initial post, as we progress as a society we get more selfish as those around us get more selfish. Its all about getting the most for your dollar. There are barely any mom and pop music stores left, the one in my area refuses to cary anything but washburn. The world is not what it was, i really wish it was and that the technological advancement would slow or stop because while it make things more readily available, it is making us lazy and a less caring society.

 

[subdude67]

i guess most people (me included) simply want whatever they buy at the lowest price.

and both my basses are black.

 

[Deep Cat]

As a small business owner, I can tell you that the reason a lot of small business take it in the pants from the big guys is because small shops sell a fungible product and provide little in the way of reasonable customer service.

In other words, the strings I buy from Corner Guitar Store are exactly the same set as the ones I can get Musicians Friend et al. Except the the online retailers don't have the overhead of a retail location and they undercut the small shops on price. If the small shops don't provide me with additional value to justify the increased cost, I'll vote for lower cost every day.

Small shops have the unique opportunity to host unique products and provide highly tailored customer service, but usually they just sell fenders in black white and blue, and gibsons in red and someburst and either ignore customers or give them the hard sell. If they reached out to small builders and put their dollars there they might find a unique place in the market.

I don't see any value to the idea of "supporting" a business. You support your kids, your pets, your hobbies and your sports teams. Business should expect to be patronized for the value they provide their customers. If the business (or band) needs "support", it's because the model can't survive on its own.

Then again, consumers, particularly musicians, are really dumb. The whole market is predicated on the fact that Slash plays a Les Paul, and Jimi Hendrix played strats. Kids want to sound like their heroes and thus want to play that guitar, or bass or whatever.

In a just world, everyone would play PRS guitars as their backup and have a custom built small boutique instrument as their main.

I personally don't see much future for the small instrument shop. I can't tell you the number of times I've excitedly gone into a new to me guitar store and left disappointed after seeing the same thing that everyone else has in their store.

Then again, the local Guitar Center (and by local I mean their San Francisco flagship store) doesn't sell anything close to a high level or elite bass. I think the highest they go is a Music Man Stingray (which is a nice bass, don't get me wrong, but it ain't no Ritter). So, there is an opportunity.

I currently have three black basses, two sunbursts, and one natural. I've been part of the problem, and I'm sorry.

However, one of the reasons I started getting into bass building was to develop finishes and body ideas beyond what is available commercially. Over 2014 I expect to build basses featuring a variety of colors and designs that are just bonkers.

 

[bassteban]

I know there was a lot to read there.....but if you guys could help me out. What color bass are you most likely to buy.

Table linens?

Edit: Seriously- I was looking for Mocha/baby poop and Seafoam or Surf Green

 

[eyeballkid]

I try things out @ guitar center and then give my money to a TB'er who's selling the same thing used. ;-)

when I played ampegs I bought it all new from my local shop, and I bought all my strings and cables from him until he closed. he now sells washing machines at Lowes. true story. :-(

 

[ArtechnikA]

First two guitars I bought (one acoustic, one electric) were from brick-and-mortar retailers. This was before the Internet so maybe not as relevant, other than I am checked out on the process. The next was from a catalog over the phone - my first not-in-person transaction. Went fine. Didn't see anything like it at any local retailer but the price sealed the deal.

Didn't buy any other instruments for almost 30 years, in which time the Web had been invented. Also moved to an area relatively devoid of local music stores. There's a small family-owned shop close to my house - they have not a single bass. Bunch of midscale guitars, some percussion, some keyboards. A few band instruments.

Bought a bass online - nothing like it locally, and I am 30 mi from two GC stores - one north, one south, neither convenient. There's also a smaller independent that gets consistent reviews for indifferent service and MSRP pricing. The product was fine although there were a couple of shipping hassles.

Another few transactions through the TB classifieds.

I -would- buy from a brick-and-mortar shop if it were stocked with what I wanted and had reasonable pricing. However - it's rare that I'd just 'go shopping' for an off-the-rack anything at a music store, at any price.

I prefer wood-colored instruments. If only colored finishes are available, I'll stick to black or white if possible. So far it has been.

So far, I haven't needed anything resembling professional repair. I've replaced and upgraded electronics (pots, selectors, jacks...). I can adjust a truss rod and set intonation.

One big issue with standard retail is access. I work for a living. Shops better have good weekend hours. I have no problem with online-purchase lead times, since whatever it is will have to wait for a weekend for me to deal with it anyway.

Maybe I've just been super-lucky, but I haven't had any issue with any instrument. It was nice being able to try an instrument and walk out of the store with it. But everything that's come in a box has been just fine too. -Maybe- this comes from shopping at the higher end of the scale where yields are better. Kind of ironic and counter-intuitive, but I think it's harder finding a low-priced instrument you'll like a lot than a more expensive one.

 

[FunkHead]

Three reasons for Me.
1. No good stores anywhere near me with Higher end gear.
2. Lower prices.
3. I like to get an unopened box from the manufacturer. That way the bass/Gear hasn't been abused by anyone. Also I've seen many basses with marks on the headstock from the cheap hangers used in stores.
I used to live by Guitar Villa in Bethlehem PA and it was the only place I ever was comfortable buying new basses. Sadly, they have mostly cheap Imported basses nowadays. I can remember back in the day A/B'ing Sadowsky's and Lakland USA's for hours at Guitar Villa and bought my Sadowsky there.

 

[f.c.geil]

I'm mostly on your side of the argument. While I will often get small, ancillary items from the big box stores, I generally get the big ticket items from a local retailer. I am, however, very fortunate in that my local retailer is also one of the best mail order establishments, employing some of the best luthiers in the world.

 

[ShoeManiac]

First and foremost, OP, I think you need to re-phrase the basic topic:



Small Print First: I'm watching the music industry- something I grew up with- Die a Rapid Death.


For the sake of clarity, we need to state that you're talking about the Musical INSTRUMENT Industry, correct? That's far different from the Music Industry, aka "The Record Business" which is facing a monumental sea change in how listeners acquire their music.

As for the MUSICAL INSTRUMENT industry? It's definitely going through significant growing pains right now. Basically, where do you start?

THE MANUFACTURERS - In the 1990's I think we (as bass players) had a phenomenally diverse array of instruments available in musical instrument shops. I can recall very well walking into a Sam Ash store in the NY suburbs and being able to try out instruments from builders like Fender, Ibanez, Gibson, Tobias, Ken Smith, Modulus Graphite, Wal, Spector and Fodera. It was fantastic to have such variety. But I suspect that it wasn't so great if you were a major manufacturer like Fender or Ibanez. And in this regard, I have to lay a good deal of blame at Fender's feet for their efforts to strong-arm small dealers.

It's not really a secret that Fender made significant changes on the order requirements for their dealers in order for those dealers to remain as Fender dealers. It was a calculated move on Fender's part to edge some of their competition out of stores. It forced the hands of many a dealer to drop some lines in order to keep Fender with their significantly higher stocking requirements, or drop Fender because they couldn't afford to keep them. And this led us to...

THE BIG BOX STORE - Over the past decade plus we've seen the rise (and now fall) of Guitar Center. When they first arrived on my local scene I thought this was a cool thing. But what actually happened was a race to the bottom, between GC and Sam Ash. These big chains had the buying power that small stores did not. And no doubt they made the lives of sales people and distributors for MI manufacturers far easier than dealing with an extensive dealer network. But this concept has definitely bitten at least one manufacturer in the ass. Fender has some serious issues because of outstanding accounts with Guitar Center on the order of $15 million +.


CORPORATE CONSOLIDATION - I honestly don't know how consolidation has been good for musicians, as the end users. FMIC is now the controlling interest of some 13 brands. And when they took over the controlling interest in Kaman Music, that meant another 11 or so brands came under the Fender banner. Have we seen the value of that consolidation take meaningful form? Usually this kind of corporate activity is sold to the public and customers as a good thing, and that it will mean lower prices. But when have we actually seen that? And how many brands under Fender have they been forced to shutter since buying them out? The same thing has been happening at Gibson. They've taken over numerous brands. And they too have run a number of those brands into the ground. I've also heard numerous complaints about US Music and the brands that they own/represent. Quality on the products with some of the brands they've taken over has declined.


The victims of this nonsense at the corporate level have been the smaller dealers. The major manufacturers used these dealers to build their businesses. But I think it's clear to see that manufacturers put more stock in courting big box stores and trying to kill their competition than they did in innovating and building their business through the traditional distribution network.

As for me? I've been really fortunate to have a great relationship with a small chain that is very competitive in their pricing. I use the online dealers for research on features and pricing. But when I actually want something? I order it through the dealer. Because I know that they'll provide me support with a product should I need it. Case in point? I had an issue with my first Epiphone Jack Casady bass. The neck started to separate from the body. My dealer handled the details with Epiphone directly, and they got Epiphone to provide me with a new bass as a replacement.

But not all dealers are created equal. Some are better than others on a number of fronts, and the business has really become quite Darwinistic: it's survival of the fittest out there. And if you're not serving your customers well, they're going to go to a dealer that WILL serve them well. And it seems that more than ever before online dealers are providing good customer service along with competitive pricing.

 

[davidgoldman]

Blue, the lighter the better.

I buy from the local small store because I like the people working there and they will meet or come close to any price I find elsewhere. They also run clinics such as playing in a band or how to play at an open mike setting. In addition, they belong to a group that can get you any brand you want. I just picked up a Reverned bass that took three days from order that they did not carry.

They know my name, my wife, and my band. When I have nothing to do, I can go there and jam with someone or, the owner (be both play bass).

 

[R Briere]

I've Only Got a Minute to Stop by but I wanted to USE that Minute to applaud many of you.........Some wonderful answers to my questions......and I'll be back to add a few comments later. Many, many thanks.....

Bass-ically Yours,
RB

 

[two fingers]

Here's where I get flamed by both the luthier AND the vintage bass admirer.

Back in the day, construction and quality control was CRAP compared to what just about any shop can do today. Tolerances were ridiculous. How many of us have shimmed or stuffed paper in the gap of a vintage Fender neck? So, back then it was pretty much required that you go to a shop and play the bass. That way you would know if it was made well. I would argue that the "mojo" many claim to find in those older basses (as compared to another of the same year and model) was just the simple fact that the fit and finish on that one was better. Come back next Tuesday and another one just like it will feel different.

Today, it's not like that at all. If you play an Ibanez BTB 5 string at the store, and then order the same model from an online dealer, it will most likely feel exactly like the one in the store. (Or close enough for most of us anyway)

So, if you go to the local store and play an Ibanez BTB 5 that sounds and feels great to you, but it is $875 and has scratches all over it from being tried out for six months, fear not! You can always order one new in the box from an online retailer for $699 including shipping and have the EXACT same bass for less money with no scratches. (Heck you can do it from your phone while walking from the guitar shop to the sandwich shop.)

All this being said two of my very best friends own a few stores and it bothers me for them.

Oh... and...... some form of Lake Placid Blue bass has always been on my wish list.

 

[acedabone]

Back in the day, construction and quality control was CRAP compared to what just about any shop can do today. Tolerances were ridiculous. How many of us have shimmed or stuffed paper in the gap of a vintage Fender neck? So, back then it was pretty much required that you go to a shop and play the bass. That way you would know if it was made well. I would argue that the "mojo" many claim to find in those older basses (as compared to another of the same year and model) was just the simple fact that the fit and finish on that one was better. Come back next Tuesday and another one just like it will feel different.

Today, it's not like that at all. If you play an Ibanez BTB 5 string at the store, and then order the same model from an online dealer, it will most likely feel exactly like the one in the store. (Or close enough for most of us anyway)

So, if you go to the local store and play an Ibanez BTB 5 that sounds and feels great to you, but it is $875 and has scratches all over it from being tried out for six months, fear not! You can always order one new in the box from an online retailer for $699 including shipping and have the EXACT same bass for less money with no scratches. (Heck you can do it from your phone while walking from the guitar shop to the sandwich shop.)

I agree. It's sad but true.

Green. Something in a 'Sparkle' or a Neon for me. But in general, All green, all the time!

 

[tr4252]

2 basses; one natural ash and the other is silver with a black pickguard.

Just one example out of many: I saw a Zoom pedal in a catalog that I was interested in, and, having decided that the local store could use my support (dollars) more than Musician's Friend, hopped in my car and drove there. The guy in the store was fiddling with something (in fact, he always seemed to be distracted by something when talking with a customer); it seemed to be a lot more interesting to him than talking to me. I asked "Do you carry Zoom products?" Without even looking up he replied "Junk". I just nodded and walked out, went home, and ordered from Musician's Friend. Never went back.

I've been playing music since I was in jr. high, and have encountered this sort of arrogance many times. I remember an occasion when the son of the owner of a shop I visited frequently, insulted my mother, who was just interested in buying me a birthday gift.

So, I think in some cases the local music stores have themselves to blame for alienating customers, especially younger ones. It's been interesting to see how karma operates in the music industry.

Tom

 

[deathsdj]

I can only speak for myself but I absolutely love using the internet to buy my stuff. I can take care of it while at work or at 4 am or whenever I want.

But you got to know what you are doing. I don't have a lot of questions about gear. I've researched whatever I'm doing so even if I go in to GC I don't need anybody who knows anything more than how to ring me up. I actually like to go there to look around a bit and I generally buy things like cords there just to be nice.

It is also real nice to have things delivered to my front door. Everybody is closed when I have time to go shopping so again I turn to the internet.

Also GC has an excellent return policy that I have used when trying out basses. I bought one of those Delux Jass V and took it home for a week, decided it was not for me and took it back. I got every penny back and ordered something else I am waiting on now. They have been real cool about it.

I do have two small shops near me that I use occasionally. They both have decent luthiers which I use when I must. One sells only high end stuff I will probably never be able to afford and the other sells Peavey bass stuff but has next to nothing in store to try out.

I like the little guy but I'm a little guy too, and when it comes to buying gear and such I have to do what is best for me and my situation.

Cheers!

MJW

 

[MrLenny1]

Internet sales are to blame for sure. Daddy's went out of business because Fred could not compete against them.
Another long time store in our area sold out because they saw this coming also.
It is not fair competition.

 

[Lemoore-on]

All the local Mom & Pop stores have been closed for the last 4 or 5 years. I have to travel 40 miles to buy anything. I could drive all that way & go to a mom & Pop store in that city and try out one of the 3 basses they have on the wall or go to GC and have 30 basses to choose from.............as far as strings and other stuff its just dumb to burn $20. in gas to buy a $30. cable.

Its not the consumers fault, its the retailers. I support local busnesses as much as I can as long as I'm getting what I need.

The last local store we had only carried Fender & Line 6 amps and the 2 basses they had on the wall were a MIM Jazz & a Line 6 They made most of their $$$ thru the school band stuff.

 

[R Briere]

I'm certainly not BLAMING anyone for Shopping Online.....so Please don't Misunderstand. My questions are quite simple and have no pretense. I moved back to Western Massachusetts after being away for 20 years to find that Total Chaos had struck the ENTIRE Music Scene. Most of the stores had closed, the Venues no longer Paid Musicians but, instead, had moved to putting out a TIP JAR....and never telling their customers that the jar is the only pay the musicians get. That's just sick.

The Mom and Pop Shops fell victim to a BRILLIANT Marketing Job by some Big Box Stores. The Instant that the RUMOR was planted that a Big Box was coming to town, MANY shop owners "Closed their Own Doors" even if it was a subconscious thought in their minds that they were about to get their clocks cleaned. They began SEVERELY trimming inventory and badmouthing the New Kid in Town~~~to their own CUSTOMERS! That used to drive me NUTS! Result?? They'd be out of business within' a very short period of time.....because they developed a bad attitude and, as witnessed on this very Forum, NOBODY likes someone with a bad attitude. I've been back for a month and hit the ignore button on a mess of people.

Nobody likes to walk into a store that has nothing of interest either. MANY Small stores now cater to beginners. IMHO, HUGE mistake....as that's who the Big Boxes cater to...... When you look at the M/O of the Superstores, who do THEY cater to? Beginners, the UNDER $1,000 buyer and a Smattering of high end buyers; just enough to give the Impression that they Care....They don't....but they can ORDER it for you.

Here's something VERY weird that amazes me.

Many talk of the lack of "communication" as being a major reason why we shop online. Quite True....but we need to remember that MOST local shops are run by Musicians.....and Musicians 'generally' SUCK at "doing business". Having said that, BUSINESSMEN generally SUCK at Life. Artists Enjoy Life. And who, EXACTLY, are you dealing with when you shop online?? We have no clue. Hmmmmm.

Want to REALLY piss off your Local Shopkeeper? Wear a Tee-shirt from the store across town into his/her shop....THAT Brainless act gets their immediate attention. Buy a Bass/Amp/Effect online and then bring it to him/her to fix....or show you how to use it.

IMHO, MANY of the local stores NEED to go away. They no longer serve a purpose. You can even get LESSONS online.....but as Musicians we also need to stop spending all our time communicating with our fingers and get back to talking and looking at other people.....and we need to learn how to do it....SOON.

Coming Soon! The Future of the Industry/You.

 

[Marial]

I know there was a lot to read there.....but if you guys could help me out. What color bass are you most likely to buy.

If forced to choose from those options it would be light green for me, but I'm more of a sunburst fan unless the bass in question has a more exotic top, in which case I'd go natural (goncalo alves, redwood, walunt, etc).

As for purchasing basses, I've run the gamut from buying from fellow TBers here in the classifieds to buying new from GC, new from locals, used from local shops, etc. The only basses I have bought sight-unseen were a custom Spector, my Pentabuzz, and a Squier '51 P. I fully intend to order another custom in the coming year.

As for effects, the ones I'm primarily interested aren't common in local brick and mortar shops large or small, so I pretty much have to get them online. I order either directly from the manufacturer or from a locally run web-based shop (bassefx.com).