So my bandmates want two singers

[Marie02]

Our band has been playing together for a little longer than a year now. Till now I played the bass and sang at the same time. Here's the thing:
We're having a gig in two weeks and we're looking for a vocalist. Now we have two girls who wanted to take a peek and try it out. No problem at that point. But they want to take them both in if they even sing moderately well. Then I won't be able to sing anymore because they don't support me at all as a singer in our band, even though I'm just as good as the other two girls and even quite a bit better than them. Honestly I hella don't know why they don't want me to sing. The only thing I am working on is to get more power behind my voice, everything else is fine. If I were to play in our band and not be able to sing or not get any support at all (exept from our lead guitarist thank god he's there) it won't be as much fun anymore.
The other thing is the number of people. If they accept both of them, we'll be seven. I am a rather introverted soul and honestly dislike too many people in our band. It's just making all this uncomfortable for me even though I want it to be fun, like always. If I were to speak up, less people would listen to what I have to say, I had that experience enough times already, and that doesn't need to happen here too for music's sake.
If they do want them both to sing in the end and they're just as good as I am, what should I do? How can I speak up and clearly say no? Because I'm sure the boys will stick together in that decision no matter what I'm trying to say. One singer is totally fine and I support that. But two who are not too good is not an option. Ofc splitting the money too much is an important factor, but if I can't enjoy it why should I stay and quietly do my part?
Thanks for listening. Hope to get some help from you guys

 

[hrodbert696]

How old is everybody? I'm feeling this is a young band, am I right?

You say the boys don't support you as a singer. Do they not agree with you about your abilities? Are you able to get any objective third-party opinions?

Obviously without hearing you or the other singers it's impossible to say for sure - we don't know if you're as good as you think you are, if your bandmates are missing something or have other ideas, or how good these other girls are.

For me, it's a matter of principle to keep any group as small as it can be and still achieve what it wants to achieve. The more people are involved, the more schedules there are to juggle, the less space on the stage for each, and the more chance for personalities to clash, not to mention splits in the pay if you're getting paid.

Another thing to ask is how the decision-making works in this band. Is there a band leader, and if so what's their leadership style? Because that's what it ultimately comes down to. If it's a democracy, you either accept the decision of the majority or you walk.

 

[EastCoastThump]

How can I speak up and clearly say no?

Because I'm sure the boys will stick together in that decision no matter what I'm trying to say. One singer is totally fine and I support that. But two who are not too good is not an option. Ofc splitting the money too much is an important factor, but if I can't enjoy it why should I stay and quietly do my part?

Before making your pitch to the band, sort these categories out in your own head or in writing:

• What are your negotiable preferences? ("I'd prefer if our solution included X, because...")
• What are your non-negotiable deal-breakers? ("I can't/won't stay in the band if we decide to do Y.")
• What values seem to drive your bandmates, and what alternatives do you see? ("If I understand why you want to bring on two female singers, you're hoping to achieve/solve A, B, and C. Here are other ways I see that would achieve those goals.)
• What relevant experiences have other bands in your region had? ("Almost every one of the top working event bands in our area uses male and female featured vocalists. That lets them cover a wider repertoire.")

You might not end up *talking* about the first two categories with the bandmates, except to give them a heads-up about a relevant deal-breaker. But before you decide how to persuade your bandmates, you need to distinguish what you want from what's non-negotiable for you.

In general, convincing people to base their decision on what you value? That's a hard sell, unless they already share those values. (So, talking about how you really want to sing, expect to get better at it, etc? That probably won't move them decisively.) OTOH, pitching to what they already value can be a winning move, especially if they haven't already made up their minds.

Figure out what's important to your bandmates in this decision. If possible, make your best short pitch based on those themes.

For example, here's a pitch based on the themes of minimum pay and ambitions for higher-profile gigs: "We'd said initially we wanted to make at least $100 each per gig, or we wouldn't book. And only two clubs in town pay the $700/night we'd need to get to our minimum as a 7-piece band. Look at the bands regularly booking those two clubs. To land those gigs, our singers can't just be okay; they'd have to be outstanding—harmonizing, covering different ranges and tones. So with these two overlapping, so-so singers, we'd be left playing budget rooms for tiny splits. All else equal, the pay goes from marginal to impossible. "

 

[sean_on_bass]

I'm with ya on this. But you may or may not have any control over the next steps if the rest of the band has kind of jumped on board with this decision. The best time to challenge a decision is when it is first being discussed. If you have a "band leader" you may be able to bring up your concerns to that person in private and see their thoughts. Its hard to really give good advice without knowing the people in the band and the overall dynamic. You might be better off going with the flow.

My primary project that ended last year had this same sort of disease. We had a really strong female vocalist doing leads but she kept trying to bring her friends into the group to help her with harmonies as she wanted three part harmonies(in jazz tunes no less) and none of the instrumentalists in the band could really pull it off. Truth be told we didn't really need those harmonies and could had used more instrumentalists to fill in the space, like a piano player or even a drummer(we didn't have one, i held up the rhythm on upright bass). We ended up having two backup singers that didn't play an instrument and didn't even sing on most of the songs. It was a total waste, made everyone's share of pay alot smaller, and barely added any depth to the music. We ended up being a 7 piece(with no drummer or keys, how does that happen?). I didnt speak up at the time, but it was clear i had no say in the direction. Once the lead singer got pregnant i gave my resignation.

 

[Marie02]

How old is everybody? I'm feeling this is a young band, am I right?

You say the boys don't support you as a singer. Do they not agree with you about your abilities? Are you able to get any objective third-party opinions?

Obviously without hearing you or the other singers it's impossible to say for sure - we don't know if you're as good as you think you are, if your bandmates are missing something or have other ideas, or how good these other girls are.

For me, it's a matter of principle to keep any group as small as it can be and still achieve what it wants to achieve. The more people are involved, the more schedules there are to juggle, the less space on the stage for each, and the more chance for personalities to clash, not to mention splits in the pay if you're getting paid.

Another thing to ask is how the decision-making works in this band. Is there a band leader, and if so what's their leadership style? Because that's what it ultimately comes down to. If it's a democracy, you either accept the decision of the majority or you walk.

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, we are indeed a young band age ranging from 14-16. We learn as we go, since we don't have too much experience yet together as a group.
My bandmates don't necessarily disagree with my abilities, the only thing they ever say is, that I need to sing more powerful, in which they're right and I am working on that currently. I also got myself some other opinions and some told me the same thing, that my technique was lacking a bit or that I can sing well. I know what my flaws are, so that's not much of a problem on my part.
Also we don't really have a band leader, we try to weigh everyone's opinions the same as much as possible, but drama is involved from time to time. I think this singer thing will come down to another discussion probably initiated by me because I feel like I'm the only one who wants to look for a singer with much better skills than I do.
But yes, in the end it comes down to accepting it or leaving. Preferably none of them, but oh well. We'll see.

 

[Marie02]

Before making your pitch to the band, sort these categories out in your own head or in writing:

• What are your negotiable preferences? ("I'd prefer if our solution included X, because...")
• What are your non-negotiable deal-breakers? ("I can't/won't stay in the band if we decide to do Y.")
• What values seem to drive your bandmates, and what alternatives do you see? ("If I understand why you want to bring on two female singers, you're hoping to achieve/solve A, B, and C. Here are other ways I see that would achieve those goals.)
• What relevant experiences have other bands in your region had? ("Almost every one of the top working event bands in our area uses male and female featured vocalists. That lets them cover a wider repertoire.")

You might not end up *talking* about the first two categories with the bandmates, except to give them a heads-up about a relevant deal-breaker. But before you decide how to persuade your bandmates, you need to distinguish what you want from what's non-negotiable for you.

In general, convincing people to base their decision on what you value? That's a hard sell, unless they already share those values. (So, talking about how you really want to sing, expect to get better at it, etc? That probably won't move them decisively.) OTOH, pitching to what they already value can be a winning move, especially if they haven't already made up their minds.

Figure out what's important to your bandmates in this decision. If possible, make your best short pitch based on those themes.

For example, here's a pitch based on the themes of minimum pay and ambitions for higher-profile gigs: "We'd said initially we wanted to make at least $100 each per gig, or we wouldn't book. And only two clubs in town pay the $700/night we'd need to get to our minimum as a 7-piece band. Look at the bands regularly booking those two clubs. To land those gigs, our singers can't just be okay; they'd have to be outstanding—harmonizing, covering different ranges and tones. So with these two overlapping, so-so singers, we'd be left playing budget rooms for tiny splits. All else equal, the pay goes from marginal to impossible. "

Thank you for the reply.
I think this will help me at talking to my mates about the topic.

 

[Stumbo]

How old are the new singers?

Will their parents allow them to gig and rehearse with the band on a regular basis?

Have they been in a band before?

Do they own any equipment?

Do they have money to invest in pro mics and stands?

Can they remember lyrics?

Will they practice on their own and come to rehearsal prepared?

Who owns the PA?

Where does the band practice?

Original or covers?

What make up is the instrumentation since you already have 5 members?

Will the new singers be choosing songs in the future?

Do the singers have boyfriends that are musicians?

Also, when additional members are added, it dilutes everyone's vote.

And since vocals usually lead the way, will they be happy with a democracy?

What will they do when outvoted on song choice?

I suggest recording your rehearsals with you singing lead and giving it a listen. Record the auditions of the others singers. Listen as a band.

Oh, out of the four other current members, none of them can even sing anything?

Seems to me you, your guitar player buddy and the, or, a drummer should consider quitting and starting your own band 3 piece band.

Start taking some vocal lessons and learn (from TB) how to manage a band so you can do your own thing would be high on my priority list if I was in your position.

You're a bass player and lead singer. Do your thing. Everyone else can follow.

Good luck!

 

[buldog5151bass]

Unless they are searching for a hookup, it makes absolutely no sense. Never add more band members than you need. It makes scheduling more difficult, and just adds to band dynamics troubles (never mind it is one more mouth to feed when you get paying gigs).

As a practical matter, you can't add a new front person in two weeks for your gig, unless they are pros (and I am guessing they aren't), and you do a LOT of work. I would do the gig with you as vocalist, see how it goes, and take it from there.

 

[Marie02]

Thanks to everyone for the help
Update: We agreed on one of the two singers after I told them what I think about the 7 persons is one person too much thing. I talked about it with our guitarists first and I'm glad they agreed, after that we brought it up to the other two and we came to a decision together. You really helped me out and made me think about a lot I didn't come up with on my own.
We'll continue practising for our gig now and the drama wasn't too big in the end.
Music can finally be in focus only, will be looking forward to that!

 

[mrcbass]

Welcome to the world of band drama. You're getting some good lessons at a young age.

You need to decide if you want to continue playing with this group, if they go in a direction you're not happy or comfortable with. Determine what it is that you want and what your "deal breakers" are. Then you need to communicate with them and state that I'm not pleased with "this" decision and will choose to find other band mates if "that" happens. Don't feel like you're forced to just go along with every whim.

That said, having not heard you sing, is it possible that you're just not quite as good as you think you are. No offense meant and not trying to put you down, but it could be that they are just not telling you about issues for sake of not hurting your feelings. I hope I'm off-base, but be sure to do some honest evaluation of yourself, before you anchor your band experience based on being the singer. If you do need more work than you think and you're not being honest with yourself, this will be a lifelong problem for you.

You don't mention why there is a search for other vocalists I have to wonder if the pursuit of these other two young ladies might be based on your male band mates having another non-musical agenda. Just sayin...

 

[Stumbo]

With 4 members who are instrumentalists and don't sing, what instruments do they play?

 

[redwingxix]

singing is a very subjective thing. Some people can have very different opinions of a vocalist no matter how well or how poorly they perform so it may not be a reflection of their or your singing abilities that's behind this desired change. My advice would be to state your opinion and if it doesn't go the way you want, keep an open mind and try it out. You may find that it's a better situation than you thought it could be and if you were right you can always leave and start something new that is more to your liking and still staying on good terms with the members. I had a similar situation in my last band ended up leaving after a year but no burned bridges and it gives you the opportunity to share gigs and compare venue notes and lots of other things.
Being able to sing and play is a big benefit since it gives a lot of flexibility in a band lineup so you would have a big advantage starting a new group that you like more.
I think you are going about it the right way by seeking out other's experiences and hope it goes well.

 

[electracoyote]

Tough call without being able to hear OP and the two candidates actually sing.

OP states she's a good singer, but confesses she lacks power. Well, that can be a pretty important component to singing. Maybe this lead the other members to the option of bringing in new singers.

All I know is, in my neighborhood, a seven-piece with great vocals will get better money gigs than a five-piece without, so the payday actually evens out. And a band fronted by two female lead singers automatically gets the better gigs simply because there are two front girls bringing their energy and mixing it up with the audience, and skill level is not the most critical aspect. It's a very popular format here.

That's entertainment.

 

[40Hz]

Unless they are searching for a hookup, it makes absolutely no sense. Never add more band members than you need. It makes scheduling more difficult, and just adds to band dynamics troubles (never mind it is one more mouth to feed when you get paying gigs).

As a practical matter, you can't add a new front person in two weeks for your gig, unless they are pros (and I am guessing they aren't), and you do a LOT of work. I would do the gig with you as vocalist, see how it goes, and take it from there.

Exactly this. (With thx to @buldog5151bass for saving me the typing.)

I also have an issue with "team hires" unless the two people have a long history of working closely with each other and now operate as a single unit. You'll find a lot of drummer/bass and lead vocal/backup harmony teams like that where they arrive already able to work smoothly with each other. If you're just putting a new band together it can save a huge amount of time.

What I have no patience with are the "if you want me you have to hire my friend too" conditions some amateurs serm to insist on. I'm of the school that says everybody gets hired (and remains in the band) based on their own talents and abilities when it comes to band membership.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Been there, did it for more than a decade, can't see myself doing it again. The cons just outweigh the pros. Really the only pro to having two dedicated singers that aren't playing instruments is it can help the band stand out in the crowd of bands in your area. I'd say it helped us make a name for ourselves locally early on. But there's a lot of cons.

This is my band back around 2006 with two singers

This is us now


All it takes is one band member to prevent a lot of things from happening. For example it means you'll have another band member who could prevent the band from being able to play a show for whatever reason. they had to work and cant get off so you have to turn down a show for example. It's another person getting a cut of the money. which a lot of us aren't that picky about but my wife cares to a certaint point because I do spend money on gear and it does make a difference of hundreds and possibly even thousands of dollars a year if you're playing gigs most weekends and making decent money because you have another member to pay. Other things are fairly obvious. Things like having that extra member means less room on small stages. I might mean the bass player or guitar player basically no longer has their own monitor at gigs because both singers want their own. I know for us a lot of little things were often put off and never agreed on because of that extra member as well. Like you can't all agree on what studio to record at so you just keep putting it off and putting it off. Or you can't agree on a T-shirt design or whatever it is and you-end up playing shows with no shirts to sell and don't make as much money which means you can't afford to record or you might even lose money if it's an out of town gig far away and you burned a lot of gas driving there and back. I mean really if I was going to do a side project at this point I'd prefer to do An acoustic Duet with the singer from my main band or maybe a 3 piece with someone also playing a Cajon.

 

[Ender_rpm]

Unless they are searching for a hookup, it makes absolutely no sense. Never add more band members than you need.

Once I saw the age range, this was the first thing that sprang to mind. Sure, OP may not have the strongest voice, but TWO extraneous singer chicks?

Good luck OP

 

[denhou1974]

This isn't 'drama' as others have said. This is a thing that has come up that the band needs to make a decision on. No big deal. There will be many in your life.

I see a lot of "me" and "I" in your post. Make sure you're being reasonable.

Has the band asked you not to sing? If the answer is no then I don't see why you can't sing a few songs. Tough love: You don't own the band. You're gonna have to compromise. I've been playing for over 25 years. The policy in most of my bands has been: if the band thinks you can sing, then pick a song and sing it. No harm.

Don't have critical conversations, like this one, in email or text. In person only.

If the group is becoming something that you didn't sign up for then search for a new group.

 

[GBBSbassist]

If four other people are in agreement that you shouldn't be the lead singer, than you might not be as decent as you think you are. I mean no offense, but I've seen and known plenty of bands with singers that aren't so great, and rarely do they realize it on their own. It's just human nature. We tend not to be as honest with ourselves as we should. We usually undershoot or overshoot our abilities.