So, What makes expensive basses expensive?

[arsie]

Art != Canvas + paint + brushes + man-hours.

 

[John D]

If you're in this business for life you start out playing what you can afford and end up playing whatever you want. There's a difference. I raised a family with a P bass but now I play custom stuff mostly. I deserve it.

You deserve it? Why? Did you do something wrong?

 

[malthumb]

......For my wait I have some amazing woodcraft. I have a stunning finish that was EXACTLY what I wanted. I have features I didn't even dream of originally.

For the money I spent, I had an expert at the other end of the phone for complete consultation, brainstorming and brilliant ideas. I had the same expert pick out the right materials (almost all hardware fabricated in house too. I had a VERY wide variety of beautiful woods to choose from. I had the ability to call and say 'hey, how about this...can you do this?". Try that with Fender......

I forgot about this VERY important issue in my response. When I had my Alembic built, I had Mica Wickersham on speed dial. Even though I "knew" what I wanted when I placed my order, it changed at least 3 times. And Alembic manufactures everything except the tuning pegs. And those are made by either Schaller or Gotoh to their specs.

Similar when I ordered my Marchlewski. Jacob Marchlewski was a one man shop, but he always answered and/or returned my calls, even though they typically meant more work for him. I specified most of the materials for him and took his expert advice on a couple items.

By the time I ordered my Roscoe I was better at the custom order thing and also much more patient, so I didn't have to bug Gard.

 

[EduardoJoel]

LOL. Oh, come on. You did too!

This forum is super civil, I like it. I honestly thought there would be an easier answer.

I think in this day and age we are inundated with information and marketing (which some have said that it's nothing but convincing you that you need something you really don't). And I see all these basses, I try them out but I don't feel like they have nothing to offer beyond of what I already play. Like anyone I want my sound to improve and my playing to improve. I doubt I'll ever be content with that. But at the same I am happy with my gear because I know what I will get out of everyone of them. I'll definitely keep visiting the store and playing every bass I see without looking at price tags.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Nice Wishbass!

Well...sometimes, they look like this:

 

[GregC]

Custom bass = more sex with you preferred gender.

It's a fact. I'm already planning on how I'm gonna beat the gorgeous women off me when my Brubaker gets here sometime this week. I fully expect that girls I have next to no relation with will want to touch me inappropriately. I'll let a few slide but I haven't quite decided where I'll draw the line.

OK, but I hope you're not laboring under the impression that each different bass will help you score with a different woman, no matter how briefly you own the instrument.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I really like the tool analogy. A Wiha or Excelite screwdriver is really nice to use. I have a set of Japanese screwdrivers that are just awesome though. They roll in your fingers perfectly. They make you want to screw things all day.
Having played a Geddy Lee Jazz, a couple Laklands and a Sadowsky in the same day, I can say that the Sadowsky owned them all. The way the neck feels on those is insane.

 

[perfektspace6]

Your friend is right - to a degree. Exclusivity can be part of it. The trick, for me, is finding that great middle ground, since I don't give a damn about exclusivity.

But really - you've been playing pretty inexpensive/cheap basses (no offense intended here - just stating the obvious) and if they are working for you, then carry on!

But if you're really curious about "The Spendy Side", here's a few thoughts...

* Higher end basses are usually made in the US, often hand made by real craftsmen. Rob Allen / Keith Roscoe leap to mind. These guys are real woodworkers who can really build instruments. So you are paying for the labor of an expert, not a factory line in Shinzen or Mexicali. Making things in the US as other costs, too: We don't let companies just despoil the environment here in the US... Did you know that the big three automakers do a great deal of their final assembly / painting in Mexico? Why do you suppose that is...? Same with musical instruments - wherever there is paint, there is pollution.

* Quality of materials factors in - though this seems to be changing (some of the newer MIC basses I've seen appear to use top notch materials (wood, that is).

* Exclusivity: Anyone who says that you are getting your $4000+ worth of bass out of a brand new Sadowsky is *crazy* - and I *love* Sadowskys!! They are great basses, but in the end they are pretty simple to build compared to a the work I see put into an Allen, a Dingwall, a Warr... But Roger can fetch that price because his brand has big mojo - and good for him! Sucks for guys like me who'd like to own one, but happily there are a ton of good options out there. Same, to a lesser degree, with Lakland, Zon, MTD - but these builders have earned a fine reputation by doing good word and, very importantly from a price standpoint, getting good exposure (Where would Sadowsky be without Will Lee, I wonder...)

Of course, this is all my opinion - and I'm a guy who uses mid to high-end gear.

Last thought: If you buy used, higher end gear works as a decent investment: You buy a used Zon (as I have, many times) and keep it in good shape - you can sell it for what you paid for it - or more. Can you say the same about a Chaparral? Perhaps... but then you're not playing a *nice* bass, right? (This is how I used to talk my ex-wife into letting me buy new gear used - - !!!)

anyway, good luck.

I think Harry is dead on with this (he usually is). After spending a fair amount on higher end basses (Pedulla, Tobias, Spector) I have come to the conclusion that, at a certain point, there are diminishing returns on your investment.

Even so, I like buying instruments made in the good ol' USA but that doesn't mean I can't find bargains in the used market. I would never pay for a Sadowsky or Fodera b/c I don't see that price as representative of the output. They are pretty and have a certain elite name recognition but otherwise sound about as good as many other basses with significantly lower price tags.

 

[scootron]

For me, the "quality" of the bass I used tended to increase as my ability increased. I started out with the cheapest of cheap. I honestly couldn't tell the difference between a Squier and a USA Fender. After a while, I learned to mod the Squiers and SXs to get them to sound much better. But as my playing improved, I started to appreciate the fit, finish, balance and overall level of quality of better basses.

I still have a Squier, an SX, a Geddy, a Franken-P, and a few others, but my #1 now is a USA Fender Jazz Deluxe. But it is all the bass I will ever need. I don't think my playing level will ever reach a point where I could justify anything else. I'm old, I have arthritis, and I'm probably not good enough for the Jazz now.

My son is a different matter. I started him with a Squier and have been moving up slowly. He's 13, and will have a Warwick fiver next...one of the lower lines. I have no doubt, though, that he'll eventually have some fine basses. He has an amazing talent, and he practices relentlessly. He will be an outstanding player one of these days, plus he is already composing, something I could never do well.

Anyway, the point is that I think a lot of us buy as nice as we can afford and can justify, given the amount we play and how well we play. I would feel guilty if I had an Alembic sitting out in the game room, knowing I should be playing it regularly and knowing I cannot do it justice.

I still play the SX and the Squier, and they sound good, but they just don't have the balance, feel and playability of the USA Jazz Deluxe.

 

[Munjibunga]

The price tag.

 

[MegaSwing]

The price tag.

Yes, above all else.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

The Ferrari has better quality components, the fit and finish inside and out are better, the interior appointments are of a greater quality, the overall time, consideration and scrutiny that went into the build is probably exponentially higher. The dude who painted the car, and the dude who rubbed out the finish on the Ferrari probably spent more time and effort to get it exactly right and perfect than the car that's on the Ford production line or even the BMW line...

Oh, definitely. I was just tackling one aspect of the car/bass specifically regarding performance. Fit & finish is clearly much better.

As with most things in life, you can get something pretty decent for a reasonable price, but as you start increasing and upgrading for tiny improvements, the cost:benefit ratio starts growing exponentially.

 

[MegaSwing]

As pure automobiles, Ferraris are not reliable vehicles and are extremely high-maintenance things. That having been said, when they're right, they are breathtaking in every respect, in addition to being one of the few things in life that is worth more when you sell it than when you bought it. Ya just gotta want one really bad.

 

[kenfxj]

Art != Canvas + paint + brushes + man-hours.

Typo or "C" reference?

 

[Nev375]

But in my meandering experience excellent strings and excellent pickups (and maybe a good bridge) make the bass, the rest of the elements don't have that much of an impact on your sound.

Actually, the most important part of the bass IMO is the neck. If I am building a custom bass, I'll allot nearly half (~40%) of my budget in the neck itself.

As for why are expensive instruments expensive? That depends entirely upon which instrument we are talking about.

 

[96tbird]

Care and attention to detail in parts and selection of high end wood, especially for clear finishes. Finishing is also extremely time consuming. and what country they are made in. I personally don't think a MIA off the shelf Fender standard (still mass production in the realm of instruments) is really any better than a MIM or Squier as far as playability; each one will feel different. Brand mojo. You need to find the one you like regardless of the name on it.

Guys spend double on MIA fenders and change pups, bridges, etc. all the time. Where's the sense? As for boutique instruments, you will receive exactly what YOU want, but if you sell it, it may not float another guys boat. But you can be assured that every detail was paid extreme attention = CASH.

 

[unclejane]

This whole idea came to mind when I saw people argue about things like body wood and fret wood. But in my meandering experience excellent strings and excellent pickups (and maybe a good bridge) make the bass, the rest of the elements don't have that much of an impact on your sound. Bang for your buck type of situation. All my life I lusted over the $1000 plus basses and now that I'm older and have the money I really can't justify buying one. Maybe I've settled into my "cheap sound" as a bassist. But is it a looks thing? a brand thing? or maybe my ear is not good enough but I can't hear a difference.

A friend of mine who works in advertisement once told me that people like iPhones because in their minds it puts them in the league as celebrities and millionaires that own them as well. Like in just that aspect we are the same as the rich and famous. Is that the case here?

I think threads like these should be banned, if for no other reason than I think it's just immoral to see bass players in excruciating pain, being tortured by the assault of 1000 cuts until they die from the agony.....

In the meanwhile, I'll add my twist on the knife handle in our collective backs here:

No, your ears aren't faulty. What makes a bass expensive isn't always features that have to do with playability and tone. The fever pitch example of this is the "relic" craze, where a beat up version of bass X can go for twice as much as the non-beat up version. Fender seems to be in the lead on this, i.e. the pristine new Jaco Jazz bass goes for about 2 grand MSRP and the half-destroyed model for somewhere around 5. And so on with their other pre-beat up instruments.

Gives new meaning to the phrase a fool and his money are soon parted.

You're quite right also about the alignment with celebrities thing. This can command quite a high price too. Tho again, this can covary with the level of foolishness of the poor slob with the fist full o' dollars - for the low low price of 5 large, you too can emulate Jaco all you want with the above mentioned "relic" Jaco jazz bass.

But the news there isn't all bad - I can and do pretend to be Bunny Brunel from time to time (learning "Ivanhoe" right now as a matter of fact) with my BB70F, but the cost there is a fraction of the Jaco fellow and my bass isn't beat up besides. So this idea can also break down depending on who your hero is.

In any case, playability and tone are way down close to the noise of what makes a bass expensive. This is both good and bad - the bad being obvious and the good being that it can work in your favor too. Good playability and tone can actually be had for a reasonable price, as long as you put on the appropriate blinders.

Ok, maybe a little less depressed, So I'll go back to watching the torture for a bit now....

LS

 

[thepontif]

Sometimes it's as simple as, the builder chooses a business model that works for his life, and his manufacturing paradigms are such that it costs him a ton to build them. i.e. Fodera. Granted CNC and other types of automation are more cost effective than other ways of building if that's the kind of business you want to run. But sometimes shear profit isn't the only motivator. If high profits motivated you, you'd be really stupid to become a bass builder.

 

[Gard]

If high profits motivated you, you'd be really stupid to become a bass builder.

Q: How do you make a million dollars in the high-end bass building business?

A: Start with three.




We don't do this to get rich, we do this because we MUST. Sorta like playing music.

And, like music, there are many different types, and different levels of quality. It's all relative, and relates to your preference.

I love Rush. You might hate them. Too complicated and convoluted for your taste; but perfect for me. Same applies to what "works" for you in a bass.

Are Rush a "rock band"? Yeah. Are The Ramones a "rock band"? Indeed. Totally different approaches to the same genre of music - however I can't really stand The Ramones, they're monotonous and boring to me. You may say the same of Rush.

Is a P bass a bass? Absolutely. Is an Alembic Series I a bass? Certainly. Totally different approaches to the same musical instrument....

What matters is what works for you. YOU. Not me, not him (points randomly to left) or her (points vaguely to the right). YOU.

If it costs $300 for you to be happy, great. If it costs $3000 for you to be happy, fantastic.

Be happy.

 

[Rockmusician]

I have never purchased anything just because a celebrity uses or endorses a product. I research my purchases thoroughly and try different brands before I make a significant purchase. For me, I usually like something that has a traditional look but at the same time you don't see very often at the local level. I own a 1976 Precision with a natural finish, 1978 Jazz in Sienna sunburst which is a relatively rare color. I also own an Alembic Epic 4 string, Epic 5 string and a Spoiler. The Epics have a traditional look but you rarely see them anywhere. They are the best sounding basses I have ever heard and play better than anything I have ever tried in more than 30 years of playing. I also like the fact that they are not mass produced and each one is hand made to order. One thing that bothers me about some of the higher end basses such as Alembic is that they do not hold their value as well as Fenders. An new Alembic starts at almost $6,000 but you can get them used for under $2,000. Ultimately, what makes a bass so expensive is the fact that people are willing to pay what the manufacturer is asking.