Soft, quiet, clickless switches. Why don’t more builders use them?

[SteveCS]

Since I read "Loop Switcher" here multiple times:
Most (all?) of the soft switching pedals have a default state to which they power up once power is connected.
I have had a soft switching pedal on my board, hidden in the lower tier because it has side jacks and does not fit up top and because I use a loop switcher and don't need to access the pedal at all. Only that its default state is 'off'. Every time I switch on the power supply, I'll have to remember to reach down into the bowels of my board and switch on that one pedal.

A simple clicky switch remains in the state you left it in.

Maybe for some, but not the case with the EHX Tri-Parallel MIxer, nor with any of the TC pedals I have on my board, e.g. Mini Sub'n'Up and the Spectracomp. All three start up in the same state as when powered down. But I can see what you describe as being a right PITA Granted the ones I have are digital/DSP-based, so storing one extra peice of data is (should be) a no-brainer. The TPM it is highly configurable in other ways. Putting the On/Off states aside, you can also configure XOR/AND switching modes and Send/Return muting options - if it always started up in the same factory default state that really would be a deal-breaker.

 

[andare]

It is not ironic, it is reliability. Since the temp has more parts, the failure modes multiply.
I am old school and prefer the switch, as it gives me a signal about being on or off without having to look at it.

I don't think momentary footswitches have more parts. There's just a spring and a contact and only two lugs.
Regular footswitches have 9 lugs that can easily burn when you solder them.

 

[andare]

Since I read "Loop Switcher" here multiple times:
Most (all?) of the soft switching pedals have a default state to which they power up once power is connected.
I have had a soft switching pedal on my board, hidden in the lower tier because it has side jacks and does not fit up top and because I use a loop switcher and don't need to access the pedal at all. Only that its default state is 'off'. Every time I switch on the power supply, I'll have to remember to reach down into the bowels of my board and switch on that one pedal.

A simple clicky switch remains in the state you left it in.

That behavior depends on the type of relay used, latching or non latching. Don't remember which one remembers its state when powered off.

 

[Deleted member 368008]

LEHLE makes switches you can buy as spare parts, and they are as silent as they come. Change them out to those. They have this "metal tounge" that a conductive switch touches. Nothing is heard. At all. Lifespan is doubled by 2 thirds methinks too compared to regulars. 1 million switches, electronically AND mechanically. They are more expensive of course, so that's why manufacturers refrain from them, naturally. But otoh 14.90 Euros for one switch ain't that much diff from most other switches out there.

Link Removed

... as you can read on the reviews below on that site, they'll fit almost any pedal without alterations, like drilling a bigger hole or whatever.

I suggested to Thomas Lehle and Guido from Neo instruments who makes rotary speaker pedals (Neo Ventilator), that Neos switches are noisy as ****. Whenever using old Leslie rotating speakers with the B3 organ, no click was ever heard from the half moon switches at the edge of the keyboard. If only Neo would collaborate with Lehle ('zey arr' both germanzzz...pronounced with thick german accent) so you could play your Hammond at very low volume and not let your dynamics get ruined by the cunning use of the switch, rotating fast and slow all of the time. Such clicks ruins the flow.

- - - - - - - -

I even made cunning use of my 5 way switch on a strat, whenever playing slow silent ballads with a drummer. He used rim shots, and I ALWAYS switched on tempo/cue/time whenever there was a rimshot, so that rimshot camouflaged the switch click noise. Same with pedals stomping the switches. Switch "on time" and your problem is solved. If not using rim shots, the full snare sound will cover it up even more.

 

[Deleted member 368008]

And BTW as mentioned already, Boss is as silent as they come anyway...even those with a full "old time" looking footswitch.

However, a mechanical sounding off click inevitabely means more mechanical wear in the long run. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[The_Owl]

I never paid much attention to the sound a pedal switch made. But recently, the band has been doing a lot of live-rehearsal recording, and man, those hard clicks stand out on the recordings.

Turns out about half my pedals have soft switches, the other half have hard ones.

At this point, a loud hard switch is a deal breaker. I know the switches themselves can be swapped, but I'd like to avoid that. so instead I'm swapping the few loud clicking pedals with similar, silent-switching circuits.

Online, there are lots of great pedals that I'd consider buying, except they're loud clickers too.

Oddly—at least to me—some cheap pedals , such as TC, have a soft switch, and some expensive ones, such as Analogman, have the hard ones.

That's fine, as there are plenty of options from brands that switch quietly.

But it makes me winder if I'm missing something. I can't figure why more manufacturers, especially high end ones, are not going in the quiet switch direction?

Do some people prefer the hard click?

Is it prohibitively more expensive or complicated to make them soft?

Does it change the tone or function somehow?

Reliability issues?

Other?

Just curious what your thoughts are on this

I absolutely prefer the feedback of a clicky switch.

 

[Deleted member 368008]

Why not invent a footswitch where loud click or soft silent one is an option you can set? Could be easily carried out with a ring around it that you turn either way. Wouldn't be rocket science.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

LEHLE makes switches you can buy as spare parts, and they are as silent as they come. Change them out to those. They have this "metal tounge" that a conductive switch touches. Nothing is heard. At all. Lifespan is doubled by 2 thirds methinks too compared to regulars. 1 million switches, electronically AND mechanically. They are more expensive of course, so that's why manufacturers refrain from them, naturally. But otoh 14.90 Euros for one switch ain't that much diff from most other switches out there.

Link Removed

... as you can read on the reviews below on that site, they'll fit almost any pedal without alterations, like drilling a bigger hole or whatever.

I suggested to Thomas Lehle and Guido from Neo instruments who makes rotary speaker pedals (Neo Ventilator), that Neos switches are noisy as ****. Whenever using old Leslie rotating speakers with the B3 organ, no click was ever heard from the half moon switches at the edge of the keyboard. If only Neo would collaborate with Lehle ('zey arr' both germanzzz...pronounced with thick german accent) so you could play your Hammond at very low volume and not let your dynamics get ruined by the cunning use of the switch, rotating fast and slow all of the time. Such clicks ruins the flow.

- - - - - - - -

I even made cunning use of my 5 way switch on a strat, whenever playing slow silent ballads with a drummer. He used rim shots, and I ALWAYS switched on tempo/cue/time whenever there was a rimshot, so that rimshot camouflaged the switch click noise. Same with pedals stomping the switches. Switch "on time" and your problem is solved. If not using rim shots, the full snare sound will cover it up even more.

I appreciate everyone saying "switch on the beat", or "switch on a drum hit", but this assumes there is always a drummer or beat or some other masking noise available when I need to switch. If that was the case, problem solved.

The challenge is the soft, beatless passages, the fade-outs, the ambient parts. Everything nice and quiet, then KATHUNK.

 

[Deleted member 368008]

The challenge is the soft, beatless passages, the fade-outs, the ambient parts. Everything nice and quiet, then KATHUNK.

Yeah, but there are options, doesn't Boss - really - have any pedal that will fit? Their own footswitches like FS-7 are clickless.

I've heard that when other people are making loops with their looper pedal they want this click, because they know it's in time with the metronome click, but me myself have nailed the "through zero waveform" of the tempo more narrow and closely with clickless switches whenever ending the loop. More in perfect tempo/time and not jinxed.

If you're very ambient, I suggest swap them out to Lehles. They even take up less real estate inside, so if there was enough space for the old one, that clicked, this will fit in there even better. However, you can't do that on every pedal out there. Those with hardwired onto a circuit board will cause a problem, but so it is even if you change them out to regular ones again, if the old ones has reached their past date with 250.000 click lifespan.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

Yeah, but there are options, doesn't Boss - really - have any pedal that will fit? Their own footswitches like FS-7 are clickless.

I've heard that when other people are making loops with their looper pedal they want this click, because they know it's in time with the metronome click, but me myself have nailed the "through zero waveform" of the tempo more narrow and closely with clickless switches whenever ending the loop. More in perfect tempo/time and not jinxed.

If you're very ambient, I suggest swap them out to Lehles. They even take up less real estate inside, so if there was enough space for the old one, that clicked, this will fit in there even better. However, you can't do that on every pedal out there. Those with hardwired onto a circuit board will cause a problem, but so it is even if you change them out to regular ones again, if the old ones has reached their past da with 250.000 click lifespan.

Thank you for the suggestions! I will look into these options!

 

[Nic Olas]

I could see in the studio where this would be some sort of issue. But in a live, gigging situation? Yeah, non-issue IMHO. Unless playing at coffeeshop volume I have never noticed the clicking sound, just the feel of the physical click.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Click-less normally includes a relay that does the actual switching. More parts.

I don't have to have a hard click, but there are times I prefer that feel/feedback when I'm turning something on or off. IME also less of a chance of a double step, where I turn on and back off when I only wanted to turn something on (only ever happened to me with the click-less pedals).

You could add a loop switcher of some sort that had the soft switches to do the switching on instead of the pedals themselves.

I also like knowing that it's on or off before I hit the note.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I never paid much attention to the sound a pedal switch made. But recently, the band has been doing a lot of live-rehearsal recording, and man, those hard clicks stand out on the recordings.

Turns out about half my pedals have soft switches, the other half have hard ones.

At this point, a loud hard switch is a deal breaker. I know the switches themselves can be swapped, but I'd like to avoid that. so instead I'm swapping the few loud clicking pedals with similar, silent-switching circuits.

Online, there are lots of great pedals that I'd consider buying, except they're loud clickers too.

Oddly—at least to me—some cheap pedals , such as TC, have a soft switch, and some expensive ones, such as Analogman, have the hard ones.

That's fine, as there are plenty of options from brands that switch quietly.

But it makes me winder if I'm missing something. I can't figure why more manufacturers, especially high end ones, are not going in the quiet switch direction?

Do some people prefer the hard click?

Is it prohibitively more expensive or complicated to make them soft?

Does it change the tone or function somehow?

Reliability issues?

Other?

Just curious what your thoughts are on this

Well, you shouldnt be hitting switches while you're recording. You should really record, then record seperate tracks for each effect. Otherwise, you're going to make a whole lot more work for your engineer.

 

[BEADist]

Well, youshouldnt be hitting switches while you're recording. You should really record, then record seperate tracks for each effect. Otherwise, you're going to make a whole lot more work for your engineer.

But that is not how you record a "live rehearsal".

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

Well, youshouldnt be hitting switches while you're recording. You should really record, then record seperate tracks for each effect. Otherwise, you're going to make a whole lot more work for your engineer.

Ah, I hear that as a good way to avoid this. Especially since I am the engineer! But in this case, recordings are live, in-the-room. It's not a multi-track overdub situation.

This is the scenario: trying to get a great live take with the full band, with no overdubs, everything is perfect, then in the quiet part, THONK. I could overdub each effected track, but then it's not a truly live recording anymore.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

I could see in the studio where this would be some sort of issue. But in a live, gigging situation? Yeah, non-issue IMHO. Unless playing at coffeeshop volume I have never noticed the clicking sound, just the feel of the physical click.

Yeah this is the rub, exactly. I had never worried about clicks before, because in a live situation, nobody can hear them. And in my typical recording mode, which is overdubs all day long, it also didn't matter (mics and amp are in a separate room). But in this one situation, the loud clickers are killin' me

 

[wellshuxley]

The sweet spot for me is "soft click" mechanical switches. They're only marginally more expensive than traditional 3pdt stomp switches (if at all), but much quieter, and they're significantly less costly and complex than silent relay switches.

 

[sloppy_phil]

Ah, I hear that as a good way to avoid this. Especially since I am the engineer! But in this case, recordings are live, in-the-room. It's not a multi-track overdub situation.

This is the scenario: trying to get a great live take with the full band, with no overdubs, everything is perfect, then in the quiet part, THONK. I could overdub each effected track, but then it's not a truly live recording anymore.

Maybe a silly suggestion, but depending on the type of effect, and how critical it is to the ambience of the moment in the song, could you apply the "offending" effects in post-production? There are pretty great plugins for almost any type of sound now, so as long as not having it during the live take isn't a deal breaker, this could be a solution for you...

 

[whoismarykelly]

Soft is more expensive than hard.
Just look inside your Behringer Boss-alikes to find a cheap little soft switch.

This is electronic switching and requires a bunch of FET switches and a flip-flop circuit in the pedal. In practice it probably costs about the same as a 3PDT or likely more of you have to buy a separate momentary switch since very very few builders outside the big leagues are using a PCB-mounted contact switch.

I think in any conversation about soft click or mechanical bypass switches the standard is always going to be a true bypass scheme whether its managed inside the switch or through a relay triggered by the switch.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Check these out — Lehle D. Loop SGoS. Even the switches on their own, can be installed as a remedy for the clickity click.

Loop switcher is a good idea. I was trying to avoid that, but it might well be the best solution.