Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[mesaplayer83]

Boy oh boy, you are just about the most insulting, yet at the same time the least comprehending person I have probably ever dealt with on TB. You have some competition, but not much.

This amp IS A SOLID STATE CLASS AB amp with a tube input buffer, which goes against the root of your very argument and which does nothing but discredit you and show your true colors here as a sh*t stirrer and nothing else. You take what is clearly and obviously a total BS marketing piece of theatrical talking heads and fall for it hook, line and sinker. I lasted 6 months in that industry, I know of the koolaid they cook up for folks like you to drink, and the skeletons their closets hide.

Also, since you don't seem to understand the technology even though you feel free to insult everybody here who does not agree with your "in the weeds" theory, an SMPS also consists of an isolation transformer, bridge rectifiers and "fat capacitors" (though fat doesn't factor into the "better" equation).

If you are going to insult somebody here (everybody here is totally justified in their own choices and personal preferences) for choosing whatever type or class of amp they do, then you, with your clearly self promoted air of superiority should at least get your own arguments right.

My opinion? You have no real idea about what are saying, you are a poser who parrots bits and pieces of hobby tinkerer drivel, you do not understand your own arguments and your sole purpose of coming to this forum is to insult all players who play what they prefer and what matches up with their own personal taste rather than yours.

I have designed all tube, all solid state and hybrid amps in class A (ish, tube only), class AB, class B, class G/H, and class D. I wouldn't say that one was inherently better than another based on type or class because different tastes deserve to be respected and supported rather than insulted.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I don't like it when players or designers are put down by somebody who does so out of a combination of ignorance and arrogance.

+1 on all of the above... I figured him as a BS'er when he made the claim of "having a lifetime of amp design and building experience", yet when asked to show some of it, was only able to produce some minor mods on an old Peavey Mark III amp...

 

[agedhorse]

Horrific mods at that (IMO)

 

[catcauphonic]

@agedhorse, besides being a semi-recent GenzBenz convert for our bands gigs (the V4B never leaves the rehearsal space anymore), I'm thrilled to have you on the board here to kindly share so much of your valuable knowledge and expertise. Much of it is still way over my head, but the things I'm learning here are largely because of your well thought out and conveyed posts.

Thank you, sir

 

[agedhorse]

Which GB did you end up with?

 

[mesaplayer83]

Horrific mods at that (IMO)

I defer to greater judgement than mine on that - but not surprised in the least...

 

[agedhorse]

I defer to greater judgement than mine on that - but not surprised in the least...

Check out the pictures

 

[JimmyM]

Dang, and to think I haven't been reading this thread lately out of boredom. I missed all the fun! Won't make that mistake again!

 

[seamonkey]

I want to play real music as it was created - not Class D facsimile music

Some people must live a horrible life being so sensitive to artifacts of class-d
Go to a concert - they risk being subject to class-d, turn on a radio, a TV, cell phone, just anything that has a amp in it and they risk being subjected to Class-D artifacts.

It must be a horrible horrible existence.

Dogs probably hear a lot of circuit whine that most humans can't. I bet a good hearing aid dog could help keep their owner away from class-d. Maybe some loud barking could mask the class-d artifacts in a pinch. Maybe train some bees to fly in your ears when someone flips on a class-d.

Worst of all - someone might send your bass through FOH, or play back a recording you did through a class-d. That entanglement could destroy some section of your brain.

There's that show where the guy is allergic to electricity - horrible life! Must be similar.

 

[xk49w]

I want to play real music as it was created - not Class D facsimile music

I find myself to be quite happy with Class D facsimile music and consider it an equal in every way to all the other classes of facsimile music. I'm progressive that way.

 

[Billy Dutton]

Not sure if this is the right thread to reach out for help....but let's run my delima up the flag pole here and see if anyone can give it a salute. Thanks to YouTube, I have been playing bass for 3 years now, a middle aged white guy with no rhythm or natural talent but fell in love with the bass since getting my first Allman Brothers LP (live at Filmore East) and managed to work my way into a Greatful Dead tribute band. I play a '78 Ric with flat wounds and love a warm vitage tone. Also love feeling the bass as much as hearing it and yes, my band mates do ask me numerous times a night to turn it down!

So, my delima..... it's time for me to purchase my first "new" rig that I can use at small gigs and big. Some big gigs have PA support, some don't, including outside gigs. It seems safe to say I need to have a modular system of cabs as well. The question is, for a rookie player that might not very the smoothest technique yet: Tube or Class D and......."10 vs "15 speakers?

I'm off to NAMM next week to do some deep research but as of now I like the Prodigy 4:88 and the Super Bassman 800 Hybrid. OK, let the heckeling begin!

 

[agedhorse]

Not sure if this is the right thread to reach out for help....but let's run my delima up the flag pole here and see if anyone can give it a salute. Thanks to YouTube, I have been playing bass for 3 years now, a middle aged white guy with no rhythm or natural talent but fell in love with the bass since getting my first Allman Brothers LP (live at Filmore East) and managed to work my way into a Greatful Dead tribute band. I play a '78 Ric with flat wounds and love a warm vitage tone. Also love feeling the bass as much as hearing it and yes, my band mates do ask me numerous times a night to turn it down!

So, my delima..... it's time for me to purchase my first "new" rig that I can use at small gigs and big. Some big gigs have PA support, some don't, including outside gigs. It seems safe to say I need to have a modular system of cabs as well. The question is, for a rookie player that might not very the smoothest technique yet: Tube or Class D and......."10 vs "15 speakers?

I'm off to NAMM next week to do some deep research but as of now I like the Prodigy 4:88 and the Super Bassman 800 Hybrid. OK, let the heckeling begin!

It doesn't matter what the amp's class is. Find an amp that works for you, that matches YOUR tastes and fits both your style as well as your transportation needs.

 

[AE1]

+1 on all of the above... I figured him as a BS'er when he made the claim of "having a lifetime of amp design and building experience", yet when asked to show some of it, was only able to produce some minor mods on an old Peavey Mark III amp...

Cast out again - the big boys will not let me play in their backyard !!

Have been trying to contribute to the title of this thread - Solid state/class d vs tube amps

Seems you technocrats have determined there is no "versus" at all

Am glad to learn there is no BS in the music amplifier industry - only in the hi-fi mob

 

[AE1]

Horrific mods at that (IMO)

Horrific to you

Joy to me

 

[the mojo hobo]

Around the turn of the century I bought a Sunn 300T and 2 15 cabinet. It was awesome. It would kick me in the back while playing and in winter I could lean back on it and feel the warmth. But it is heavy, and I am getting on in age. When Genz Benz announced their demise there seemed to be a sell-off of Genz gear. I bought a couple of cabs and a Shuttlemax. When I sold the Sunn gear I set it up in the garage for the buyer to check out. I think it was just an old Carvin bass that I used, but that amp sounded perfect. Do I miss it? No, with the band I still sound like me, ....hell yeah I miss it, but no one in the audience notices.

 

[AE1]

I am I hearing, you are going unaided acoustic?

Amplified it is but I like my music analogue - just like vynil records and drums and loudspeakers

The referenced amp is a hybrid, not all tube, go to corner and write tubes are not mosfets, mosfets aren't tubes, 1000 time for each watt of output at 2 ohms.

Hybrid it is

Consistent with previous posts and other threads re preamp v main amp distortion the point was made in the video that they had concluded tubes sound better - no contest

But in the modern world it is not commercially viable for a manufacturer to make all tube amps so they took the next best option which is to marry the two

Nothing remarkable about that

Bass players do it all the time with a SS amp and a tube preamp

The ultimate test is always the listener - just ask those many posters who describe their Class D rig as not only sounding great but is better than anything they have ever had before

 

[agedhorse]

Order up... with extra marketing gravy

 

[JimmyM]

Not sure if this is the right thread to reach out for help....but let's run my delima up the flag pole here and see if anyone can give it a salute. Thanks to YouTube, I have been playing bass for 3 years now, a middle aged white guy with no rhythm or natural talent but fell in love with the bass since getting my first Allman Brothers LP (live at Filmore East) and managed to work my way into a Greatful Dead tribute band. I play a '78 Ric with flat wounds and love a warm vitage tone. Also love feeling the bass as much as hearing it and yes, my band mates do ask me numerous times a night to turn it down!

So, my delima..... it's time for me to purchase my first "new" rig that I can use at small gigs and big. Some big gigs have PA support, some don't, including outside gigs. It seems safe to say I need to have a modular system of cabs as well. The question is, for a rookie player that might not very the smoothest technique yet: Tube or Class D and......."10 vs "15 speakers?

I'm off to NAMM next week to do some deep research but as of now I like the Prodigy 4:88 and the Super Bassman 800 Hybrid. OK, let the heckeling begin!

There is no one answer, there is no right or wrong, there is only your tastes, your volume needs, and your ability to transport everything. A 410 with a 300w amp is a very popular rig that combines a lot of these features into a rig that's usable in most any situation except the most high volume, and isn't too hard to transport. You can go modular with the cabs as well. Two 210's, or maybe two 115's, maybe a couple 12's, whatever.

 

[catcauphonic]

Which GB did you end up with?

First a Shuttle 6.2, then a Streamliner 900, then I went for a complete set and snatched up a a Neo-X212

Our drummer is a bit of a tube snob, too. But after I added that cab with the Shuttle head he "thinks we've found our sound."

Some people must live a horrible life being so sensitive to artifacts of class-d
Go to a concert - they risk being subject to class-d, turn on a radio, a TV, cell phone, just anything that has a amp in it and they risk being subjected to Class-D artifacts.

It must be a horrible horrible existence.

Dogs probably hear a lot of circuit whine that most humans can't. I bet a good hearing aid dog could help keep their owner away from class-d. Maybe some loud barking could mask the class-d artifacts in a pinch. Maybe train some bees to fly in your ears when someone flips on a class-d.

Worst of all - someone might send your bass through FOH, or play back a recording you did through a class-d. That entanglement could destroy some section of your brain.

There's that show where the guy is allergic to electricity - horrible life! Must be similar.

I'm gonna subject a room full of unsuspecting folks to the ol' 1,2 Shuttle/Neo212 knockout tomorrow nite at our CD release show

i occasionally get an old school (gear) string player inquiring after being surprised how swell it sounds

 

[AE1]

I find myself to be quite happy with Class D facsimile music and consider it an equal in every way to all the other classes of facsimile music. I'm progressive that way.

Is hard to escape facsimile music with digital CD, DVD and blue ray, digital radio, digital TV, digital phones and digital photograhy all around us. The human brain is remarkable in its ability to trade off performance against other competing factors like price and convenience. Good enough has become good enough - that's rational.

Class D emulates digital because it creates a sampled wave just like a DAC convertor from CD or DVD or the internet. We are becoming so used to the virtual world we are not only becoming a part of it but dependent upon it

Sullivan patented a Class D tube amplifier in 1961 - nearly 60 years ago - so Class D of itself cannot be regarded as "progressive".

Class D covers a wide range of driver and output stage configurations

The use of Class D for bass amps though is only progressive because it saves on weight, Class D amps are cheaper to buy new, they consume less mains power at low outputs and they are currently in fashion.

But the inherent attenuation of LF is a challenge for bass amp designers to get around.

Apart from that the technology is so complex it is beyond the realm of DIY experimenters and home constructors - and maybe many service techs.

That's good for manufacturers but no so good for those who want to build their own

Few companies now release schematics of their Class D amps so the fee for service tech has to devote much more time to analysing and problem solving - and running up a bill in the process. The five year warranties coupled with industry progress will result in bass amps becoming throwaway every five years or when they develop a fault or fail after that.

Besides, in five years time the Class D amp will be smaller and cheaper and better than ever so who wants an old model ?

Building a bass amp in the garage will soon become as daunting a task as building a desktop PC, cell phone, a flat screen digital TV or PC monitor, or a world band pocket radio

The writing is on the wall for DIY'ers - conquered by the global economy

All we will be left to experiment with is the humble tube amp relegated to museum status

 

[AE1]

+1 on all of the above... I figured him as a BS'er when he made the claim of "having a lifetime of amp design and building experience", yet when asked to show some of it, was only able to produce some minor mods on an old Peavey Mark III amp...

I showed you mine - now you show me yours