Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Crown is using Class "D" in their XLS series. I have one in my Big Rig. Super dependable. Crown will make sure of that.
But even my Genzler is dependable. Jeff will not introduce a product that lets you down.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Is this for the peaking plant genny application or for aviation/avionics? I'm somewhat familiar with the industrial side of GE, especially the power plant areas where they are still VERY strong, both alone as well as in partnership.

The platform (Predix) is Application Agnostic meaning it doesn't discriminate. It could be a peaker (which btw are going away in CA thanks to the solar infrastructure in the central valley) a water treatment plant, a jet engine (not avionics) or anything that utilizes multiple (could be ten to tens of thousandths or more) of analog and/or discrete data points (tags) that will be stored in the cloud (some data center somewhere). As data is the new hot commodity (like oil was 100 years ago) predictive algorithms on trillions of data points makes for some very powerful results. With jet engines for example, since GE does not sell but instead leases these to the airlines they don't get paid for downtime. In an interest to reduce this down time predictive analysis is used to anticipate engine service schedules. These platforms are open and depending on the sensors used as tags, the sky is the limit. Spooky stuff....

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Crown is using Class "D" in their XLS series. I have one in my Big Rig. Super dependable. Crown will make sure of that.
But even my Genzler is dependable. Jeff will not introduce a product that lets you down.
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I like those Crowns. Used one for about two years into an SWR Goliath 2X10 and an Ampeg 1X15 bottom. They don't like the bridge mode at low Z speaker loads however. I cooked the left side at a gig attempting this. Mine was Chinese manufactured and suffered from quality such as loose connectors and other mechanical/ass'y issues. Sounded great though, plenty of headroom.

 

[Rodslinger]

Just gonna start more S@#T here lol. There is so much in this video about our conversation.

 

[Rodslinger]

Lets get ready to RUMBLE!

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I like those Crowns. Used one for about two years into an SWR Goliath 2X10 and an Ampeg 1X15 bottom. They don't like the bridge mode at low Z speaker loads however. I cooked the left side at a gig attempting this. Mine was Chinese manufactured and suffered from quality such as loose connectors and other mechanical/ass'y issues. Sounded great though, plenty of headroom.

Never have had a problem with my XLS1500. I have only ran in stereo and never had a need to bridge it. But I believe mine is a made in USA model. Was running mainly with at Dual 12 inch Schroeder, and a three 10" Epifani. And it is a smoking rig.

 

[AE1]

Just gonna start more S@#T here lol. There is so much in this video about our conversation.

Oh dear. Class AB with tubes !!

Just goes to show - even after half a century of development experience, this group of the world's top designers agree tubes sound better than SS and Class AB SS amps sound better than Class D

The PS Audio BHK 300 amp is obviously built up to a standard and not down to a price

No SMPS but good old fashioned isolation transformer, bridge rectifiers and fat capacitors

At 93 lbs weight for 1,000 watts is not likely to be a winner for wimpy bass players but a new standard has been set.

To make matters worse, contrary to the arguments presented by my numerous detractors, it was designed by university trained engineers using components and test equipment designed by university trained engineers

What more can I say ?

Confirms my decision to stick with tubes for my home stereo and Class AB SS for my bass amps

I want to play real music as it was created - not Class D facsimile music

 

[Drgonzonm]

Oh dear. Class AB with tubes !!

Just goes to show - even after half a century of development experience, this group of the world's top designers agree tubes sound better than SS and Class AB SS amps sound better than Class D

.....
I want to play real music as it was created - not Class D facsimile music

I am I hearing, you are going unaided acoustic?
The referenced amp is a hybrid, not all tube, go to corner and write tubes are not mosfets, mosfets aren't tubes, 1000 time for each watt of output at 2 ohms.

 

[agedhorse]

Oh dear. Class AB with tubes !!

Just goes to show - even after half a century of development experience, this group of the world's top designers agree tubes sound better than SS and Class AB SS amps sound better than Class D

The PS Audio BHK 300 amp is obviously built up to a standard and not down to a price

No SMPS but good old fashioned isolation transformer, bridge rectifiers and fat capacitors

At 93 lbs weight for 1,000 watts is not likely to be a winner for wimpy bass players but a new standard has been set.

To make matters worse, contrary to the arguments presented by my numerous detractors, it was designed by university trained engineers using components and test equipment designed by university trained engineers

What more can I say ?

Confirms my decision to stick with tubes for my home stereo and Class AB SS for my bass amps

I want to play real music as it was created - not Class D facsimile music

Boy oh boy, you are just about the most insulting, yet at the same time the least comprehending person I have probably ever dealt with on TB. You have some competition, but not much.

This amp IS A SOLID STATE CLASS AB amp with a tube input buffer, which goes against the root of your very argument and which does nothing but discredit you and show your true colors here as a sh*t stirrer and nothing else. You take what is clearly and obviously a total BS marketing piece of theatrical talking heads and fall for it hook, line and sinker. I lasted 6 months in that industry, I know of the koolaid they cook up for folks like you to drink, and the skeletons their closets hide.

Also, since you don't seem to understand the technology even though you feel free to insult everybody here who does not agree with your "in the weeds" theory, an SMPS also consists of an isolation transformer, bridge rectifiers and "fat capacitors" (though fat doesn't factor into the "better" equation).

If you are going to insult somebody here (everybody here is totally justified in their own choices and personal preferences) for choosing whatever type or class of amp they do, then you, with your clearly self promoted air of superiority should at least get your own arguments right.

My opinion? You have no real idea about what are saying, you are a poser who parrots bits and pieces of hobby tinkerer drivel, you do not understand your own arguments and your sole purpose of coming to this forum is to insult all players who play what they prefer and what matches up with their own personal taste rather than yours.

I have designed all tube, all solid state and hybrid amps in class A (ish, tube only), class AB, class B, class G/H, and class D. I wouldn't say that one was inherently better than another based on type or class because different tastes deserve to be respected and supported rather than insulted.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I don't like it when players or designers are put down by somebody who does so out of a combination of ignorance and arrogance.

 

[Passinwind]

Am I hearing, you are going unaided acoustic?

"I can't hear you...!"

 

[somebrains]

Don't under-estimate IBM or GE, they have resources that are beyond our wildest dreams, but won't be made public (read as declassified) for many, many years

I know guys on the GE cloud team, they're frantically hiring without unified goals.
They have too many cooks with personal goals interfering with the overall GE Cloud branding.

I've dealt with IBM, they cannot exist in a bubble bc patent minefields become more of a problem bc it is so easy to POC your way to a patent fight, or simply patent troll them.
We all know about their voice assistant that never launched, their in-memory database that can never launch, and their mobile "tracking" based on "emotional state" application that can't see the light of day.
Secrecy can be a problem in that smaller teams tend to be more vocal and sprint down narrow build deployment paths.
It doesn't help IBM's secrecy when they bleed people off unshipped projects that clearly state their expertise on Linkedin or you talk to them at industry networking events.
No one wants to work at a tech company forever, we all want to move on to a narrow focus where we can demand % of VC funding.
Makes people talk, even when they risk paying off their previous employer at a later date.

One size fits all amps don't tend to do well.
I had a Seymour Duncan amp in the late 80's I bought really cheap bc no one wanted to buy modules for it.
I thought the Markbass modular thing was a cool idea, but even if it had swapable power sections I suspect people would either play it as shipped or buy out the "best" config and leave the other modules to rot on store shelves.

Try as you might, people tend to go with packaging that is familiar and suited to some closely held belief.
People will have this fantasy scenario and get locked up making everything somehow fit that not real idea.
People are not as grounded as they say they are, I know an adult streaming site that is hiring a sysop/data analyst if you want to delve into analyzing what really drives people.
I thought I had a real window into people's motivations in video gaming, but it isn't as deep as other data collection.

People gravitate toward a clear PR message with an Internet reinforced belief that their consumer packaged good or service is the "best".
Apple particularly crafts an ecosystem that trips the same brain flurries as someone attending a Catholic Mass or Islamic call to prayer for a reason.

I'm curious what amps in 2018 succeed in the wider use case.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I know guys on the GE cloud team, they're frantically hiring without unified goals.
They have too many cooks with personal goals interfering with the overall GE Cloud branding.

I've dealt with IBM, they cannot exist in a bubble bc patent minefields become more of a problem bc it is so easy to POC your way to a patent fight, or simply patent troll them.
We all know about their voice assistant that never launched, their in-memory database that can never launch, and their mobile "tracking" based on "emotional state" application that can't see the light of day.
Secrecy can be a problem in that smaller teams tend to be more vocal and sprint down narrow build deployment paths.
It doesn't help IBM's secrecy when they bleed people off unshipped projects that clearly state their expertise on Linkedin or you talk to them at industry networking events.
No one wants to work at a tech company forever, we all want to move on to a narrow focus where we can demand % of VC funding.
Makes people talk, even when they risk paying off their previous employer at a later date.

One size fits all amps don't tend to do well.
I had a Seymour Duncan amp in the late 80's I bought really cheap bc no one wanted to buy modules for it.
I thought the Markbass modular thing was a cool idea, but even if it had swapable power sections I suspect people would either play it as shipped or buy out the "best" config and leave the other modules to rot on store shelves.

Try as you might, people tend to go with packaging that is familiar and suited to some closely held belief.
People will have this fantasy scenario and get locked up making everything somehow fit that not real idea.
People are not as grounded as they say they are, I know an adult streaming site that is hiring a sysop/data analyst if you want to delve into analyzing what really drives people.
I thought I had a real window into people's motivations in video gaming, but it isn't as deep as other data collection.

People gravitate toward a clear PR message with an Internet reinforced belief that their consumer packaged good or service is the "best".
Apple particularly crafts an ecosystem that trips the same brain flurries as someone attending a Catholic Mass or Islamic call to prayer for a reason.

I'm curious what amps in 2018 succeed in the wider use case.

They (GE) are also firing without unified goals.

 

[ghostinthemach]

Tubes, SS, Class D. I use and love them all. Each for different reasons, seasons and sessions.
Which one’s better? Who cares.

Lately I use this (Eleven Rack, direct w/iem’s) as much as anything else. It allows me to thrive in the speakerless stage world. Tone, tone and more tone:

Advice from a 48 year bass vet; Bassists, don’t get stuck in one world!

 

[bucephylus]

Oh dear. Class AB with tubes !!

Just goes to show - even after half a century of development experience, this group of the world's top designers agree tubes sound better than SS and Class AB SS amps sound better than ClassD.

Not sure what you are basing that statement on. The first commercially useable Class D output modules, not optimized for bass application, started showing up in bass amps around 2006-ish; and we’ve only recently in the last few years started seeing amps with modules which had bass applications as part of their intended design. That is so far off of a “half century,” as to make your post pretty much irrelevant.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Oh dear. Class AB with tubes !!

Just goes to show - even after half a century of development experience, this group of the world's top designers agree tubes sound better than SS and Class AB SS amps sound better than Class D

The PS Audio BHK 300 amp is obviously built up to a standard and not down to a price

No SMPS but good old fashioned isolation transformer, bridge rectifiers and fat capacitors

At 93 lbs weight for 1,000 watts is not likely to be a winner for wimpy bass players but a new standard has been set.

To make matters worse, contrary to the arguments presented by my numerous detractors, it was designed by university trained engineers using components and test equipment designed by university trained engineers

What more can I say ?

Confirms my decision to stick with tubes for my home stereo and Class AB SS for my bass amps

I want to play real music as it was created - not Class D facsimile music

Haha! You fell for that? Just some schmoe trying to sell his box Lol!

 

[bucephylus]

I know guys on the GE cloud team, they're frantically hiring without unified goals.
They have too many cooks with personal goals interfering with the overall GE Cloud branding.

I've dealt with IBM, they cannot exist in a bubble bc patent minefields become more of a problem bc it is so easy to POC your way to a patent fight, or simply patent troll them.
We all know about their voice assistant that never launched, their in-memory database that can never launch, and their mobile "tracking" based on "emotional state" application that can't see the light of day.
Secrecy can be a problem in that smaller teams tend to be more vocal and sprint down narrow build deployment paths.
It doesn't help IBM's secrecy when they bleed people off unshipped projects that clearly state their expertise on Linkedin or you talk to them at industry networking events.
No one wants to work at a tech company forever, we all want to move on to a narrow focus where we can demand % of VC funding.
Makes people talk, even when they risk paying off their previous employer at a later date.

One size fits all amps don't tend to do well.
I had a Seymour Duncan amp in the late 80's I bought really cheap bc no one wanted to buy modules for it.
I thought the Markbass modular thing was a cool idea, but even if it had swapable power sections I suspect people would either play it as shipped or buy out the "best" config and leave the other modules to rot on store shelves.

Try as you might, people tend to go with packaging that is familiar and suited to some closely held belief.
People will have this fantasy scenario and get locked up making everything somehow fit that not real idea.
People are not as grounded as they say they are, I know an adult streaming site that is hiring a sysop/data analyst if you want to delve into analyzing what really drives people.
I thought I had a real window into people's motivations in video gaming, but it isn't as deep as other data collection.

People gravitate toward a clear PR message with an Internet reinforced belief that their consumer packaged good or service is the "best".
Apple particularly crafts an ecosystem that trips the same brain flurries as someone attending a Catholic Mass or Islamic call to prayer for a reason.

I'm curious what amps in 2018 succeed in the wider use case.

WAAAY off target regarding your summary of both IBM and GE.

The whole thing that has happened to our tech industry is a much longer discussion. Suggest you stick to posting what you actually have experience with.

 

[Paulabass]

I sold my first SVT back in the eighties, I just didn't need it. All this time I've been SS, including some ultra light class D's. And I've been happy......
Last week I was waiting for something in a music store and I plugged into an SVT-CL. It caused instant dis-satisfaction with my current rig. It really is ALL THAT.
Now, my dilemma- I don't need 80 pounds, and elephant stunning volume- I always have good P.A. support, and the days of the audience needing to hear my stage rig are long gone. (With the exception of a few jazzy/loungey/bluesy gigs)
Yesterday I picked up a Traynor YBA200-2. 4x KT88 for 200 loud watts, and a vintage cut-only tone stack. Lots of SVT vibe in only 41 pounds.
I'm keeping my ultra light rig for said loungey gigs, I have a Mesa/QSC BIG, BIG rig for when I need to do demolition, but I think the tube rig will be my #1.

 

[agedhorse]

Haha! You fell for that? Just some schmoe trying to sell his box Lol!

Ding, ding, ding... We have a winner!

WAAAY off target regarding your summary of both IBM and GE.

The whole thing that has happened to our tech industry is a much longer discussion. Suggest you stick to posting what you actually have experience with.

Absolutely, I deal with folks in these industries and when it comes to industrial automation and controls in the energy and large manufacturing sectors these companies (and others of course) are still very big players.

 

[agedhorse]

GE dominated the control system side of the PCB drilling industry as well as the machine tool industry with their Mark series servo controllers that used encoder feedback. Unbelievable system for the era.

 

[BadExample]

Haha! You fell for that? Just some schmoe trying to sell his box Lol!

Kind of like going to a bar for marriage counceling