Solid States More Popular Now

[georgestrings]

The load in and out lasts a few minutes but some of my gigs last hours, and I'll get over the heavy lifting but I have to listen to it, too.

I reached the same conclusion a few years ago - my gigs typically last 3-4 hours, my load in/load out times are only a few minutes... I don't mind muscling a little gear to be happy during my performance, and confident that I won't have any issues regarding reliability or volume needed...


- georgestrings

 

[georgestrings]

Regarding the OP - I like a good hybrid for a compromise between the weight and reliability issues that may come along with playing an all tube bass amp, and the convenience of a SS amp... IMO, a hybrid needs atleast 2 or 3 tubes to make a difference, though - anything less and it's merely window dressing... For guitars, I'm strictly an all tube guy, though...


- georgestrings

 

[CL400Peavey]

Tubes are great for guitars, but they're little more than a status symbol for bassists with lucrative day jobs.

Get real. Where do you people get ideas like that?

+1

I have 4 amps currently, an all tube amp, a class D SS, a lead sled SS, and a Pre/power rack set up. Guess what all the amps sound different, and here is why: They are all different amps.

My all tube amp and my cab choices are tonally very different from someone playing an SVT into an 810e. There are reasons to use any of my amps, its situational though.

All that said, my tube amp IMHO is the very best sound achievable, that I know of. I dont stop listening or trying out new gear, but nothing has impressed me as much as my Classic 400.

 

[username1]

Nothing will ever replace an all tube svt in my opinion but i went to an ampeg pro 7 because it gets me close enough for alot cheaper, lighter and more powerfull amp. I didnt think a hybrid would ever get close enough to the sound i love but I am totally satisfied with it.

 

[FourBanger]

Yes but is your bass's onboard preamp tube powered?

 

[Warwick Qc418]

I don't care for overdriven sound. What I like about tube I personnaly (maybe others too) call it tube roundness, sounds fuller, "rounder".

I get enough of that with my walkabout, but I've never heard another hybrid do this as well.

I also think that all tube heads make a comeback, just have to see the manufacturers coming out with new all tube head.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

...Tubes are great for guitars, but they're little more than a status symbol for bassists with lucrative day jobs.

:scowl:

If we're being frank here, one could easily say that people who settle for SS or hybrids are just too lazy to haul an all-tube amp to the gig. We don't hear a lot of "well that tube amp just sounds atrocious and awful...can't get a decent tone out of it to save my life", in most cases the common gripe is the weight and size of an all-tube amp. Now that would be a big generalization, which is rather ignorant, but it happens enough to where we could chalk it up to people wanting lower chiropractic bills or what have you in many cases.

You could boil it down to taste, but saying tubes are a "...status symbol for bassists with lucrative day jobs" is just stupid. Of all the things to be flashy with, I'd probably put my actual amp head in second-to-last place, being beat out by your effects board. Some people just put emphasis on different parts of their gear more than others. The effects junkies wouldn't bat an eye at having 5 or more pedals on their board where that might not sit well with a lot of other bassists. For some people a Fodera can take their playing to places that another bass cannot...and that's awesome that they've found something like that to enhance their playing. You can chalk tube love up to a lot of things, but none of these guys haul around these massive amps to look or feel cool...it's blatantly obvious that it's to sound cool while they play

 

[basscooker]

what's the best tube vs. ss argument for metal?

 

[Honkycat]

....I think that there's more of a varied selection of tube amps now than there was maybe 20 years ago..It's still a popular niche market....I guess that SS technology has gone in leaps and bounds,and most of it sounds really good.
For the average working musician,being able to transport/lift your own equipment by yourself is kind of a must.This is where the hybrid/SS wins out

 

[JimmyM]

....I think that there's more of a varied selection of tube amps now than there was maybe 20 years ago..It's still a popular niche market....I guess that SS technology has gone in leaps and bounds,and most of it sounds really good.
For the average working musician,being able to transport/lift your own equipment by yourself is kind of a must.This is where the hybrid/SS wins out

Can't deny any of that. SS is always going to outsell tube for bass amps. But I've seen a LOT more tube amp usage on the local pro/am level in the past few years, so more and more are making the schlep.

 

[Munjibunga]

Get real. Where do you people get ideas like that?

You know he's right, Jimmy.

 

[JimmyM]

You know he's right, Jimmy.

Yeah yeah yeah.

 

[chadds]

what's the best tube vs. ss argument for metal?

LOL!!!

 

[anderbass]

I'd like to add that SS amps' tone doesn't change a lot during the warm-up period, unlike vavles. Handy for rehearsals and gigs when you can't sit around waiting for your amp to warm up, and especially good for gigs that are so short, you're only playing for 5-10 minutes after your amp's warmed up. Less control-tweaking as the tone settles in too, which is also convenient.

Good point, a lot of guys that bad-mouth tube power-sections for bass never even play them long enough to warm up.

I prefer all-tube bass amps in terms of sound and feel,

but the realities are expensive, temperamental, heavy, huge, and not super efficient.

Me too.

Well, a lot of the best things in life either cost more or are less convenient in some way.

Not all tube powered bass amps are temperamental: I had my SVT-II and 400+ serviced by a competent tech like 5 or 6 years ago, since then I've rehearsed/gigged the crap out of them without a single problem...

With my Aguilar, I get 500 watts at 4 lbs and a fair emulation of a tubey overdrive circuit.

I could get a 'fair emulation' out of a blow-up sex doll, but I still prefer a real woman.

I think we're just getting newer bassists coming into the scene with no preconceived notions on what the holy grail of tone is "supposed" to be.

For better or for worse, I suppose. On one hand, you get all kinds who simply take whatever's cheapest and lightest and cludge along,

Good point.

+1. Solid state bass amps sound much better than they used to. Maybe not good enough for some, but the advantages tilt the scale for most.

Yep.

the growl can also be in the amp, depends on how you drive them, plus some amps, specifically Gallien Krueger, are well known for their growl.

Tube amps are still alive and well in bass-land, but as others have pointed out, they're big and heavy esp compared to tubed guitar amps because you need more power for bass. And that means more tubes and bigger power and output transformers.

I see more than a fair amount of people out there gigging the big SVTs, Mesa 400s, Traynors, and the rest. There is a certain something about them that works for a lot of people.

I've gigged both for about 40 years and I largely rely on SS amps because that's what works for me most of the time.

I still, however, use a blackface Showman through a modded 2-15 Showman cab to get that sound when required. You can get almost there w/the hybrids, but IMHO and IME, you need both the preamp and amp sections in glass to get the whole enchilada. If you have the appetite for enchilada, that is

Mmm... enchiladas and tube powered bass amps

I have 5w, 30w, 50w, 200w, and 300w tube bass amps.

Cool, I've got a Mesa 400+ modded do all those same max-output levels, (except the 5w) with the simple flicks of a few toggle switches, and re-plugging my speaker cable into the appropriate tap on the amp: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/switchable-max-output-mod-300-w-tube-amp-238662/

I love a good all tube bass amp, but frankly, I can get 90% of that tone and feel with a good hybrid head, at 1/10th the weight. That makes it a no-brainer for me, and many others.

Yep good point, sometimes I compromise and settle for eating at restaurants where the food is only 90% as good as other restaurants too.

yes, I'll admit 90% of the way is usually enough and the weight (and space) savings is very attractive. I'm definitely not against them, you can't argue with 500 or more watts in 4 lbs that sounds great.

I use a Showman occasionally (partly) because it's about 45 lbs as opposed to the SVT's 80 or so lbs and the gigs I use them for aren't high vol, or I'll have mic'd PA support. Plus I like the Fender sound. I would not rule out a good hybrid if somewhere down the line I need to gig the tube sound more, but I can't justify it now.

That said, I do like the ss sound for bass most of the time. For me. We do live in a golden age for bass amplification, all these great solutions and choices

Cool, you have an good attitude regarding the choice between tube or S/S powered bass amps.

Thanks for the replies. I think the ss amps have improved. I had an ss Peavey stack in the early 80s. It was a Mark IV and it was reliable, but it sounded terrible. This Rumble 350 I have now sounds pretty good in comparison to my dusty old memory.

The greatest bass experience I ever had was playing through an old Ampeg SVT stack--it was a religious experience. The Rumble 350 can't serve up those bowel-rumbling SVT tones, but it sounds good to my ears.

Cool, I like the way you described the feel, tone and experience of a good SVT!

There's a massive world of "Solid State" Amplifiers. And they are very popular.
It's not just one SS design, there are many. Many pre-amp designs hidden in heads.

The world has become smarter. wiser, and is listening with objectivity and buying less of the marketing spew.

Yes, thankfully this is true for both sides of the tube vs S/S power debate. Although some guys here on this forum simply refuse to admit that some tube-powered bassist might have a very good reasons to prefer tube power. Those guys are actually closed minded and have tunnel-vision while constantly going around preaching the merits of emulation, S/S and class-D power.

There are big pluses to all three (tube, solid state, and Class D). That's why I own all three!

I think Mehve really nailed it though. Young bass players are into guys who never played an SVT in their whole life. It is not the gold standard for every single player that it was at one point a few decades ago. I love a good tube amp. But my Mesa Walkabout gets close enough for rock n roll and weighs less for the whole combo than the SVT head alone does.

Yep, 'close enough' is good enough for me sometimes too.

 

[nysbob]

Break-up is not the only reason to like tube amps. I like them better when they're running clean, too. Don't know where the idea started that tube amps were only if you like distortion, but it ain't true.

Word.

I like to describe it this way -

SS amps will reproduce the sound of your bass with deadly clarity and accuracy.

Tube amps sing.

I use the old iron because I like the sound, period.

 

[nukes_da_bass]

I used two different hybrid heads for about three years every weekend- both of them SLM products.
I HATED the SVTIII pro- it would never have a non distorted sound- guitarists loved it for that reason!
NOTHING emulates tube power attack. That's why I lug the 400+ to 9 out of 10 gigs.

Let's say I wasn't married... And I could have my choice of two dates on any given Friday night...one was Lucy Liu, the real deal... A high maintenance date, but it's Lucy Liu!

The other one sort of looks like her and sort of sounds like her and might put up with my 2002 PT cruiser and a cheap movie after dinner at McDonalds but she ain't really Lucy...

At the end of the day it's more work but look at the good time I had!

 

[seamonkey]

Yes, thankfully this is true for both sides of the tube vs S/S power debate. Although some guys here on this forum simply refuse to admit that some tube-powered bassist might have a very good reasons to prefer tube power. Those guys are actually closed minded and have tunnel-vision while constantly going around preaching the merits of emulation, S/S and class-D power.

Modeling can do familiar and new never heard sounds. It works for those who aren't closed minded with tunnel vision that the components in the box are all that matter.

Class-d, Class-ab - sound the same, one just happens to be more popular for many reasons.

 

[JimmyM]

Anyone who can't tell the difference between a tube amp and a tube amp emulation when you run them direct into a recorder is deaf.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I'd like to add that SS amps' tone doesn't change a lot during the warm-up period, unlike vavles. Handy for rehearsals and gigs when you can't sit around waiting for your amp to warm up, and especially good for gigs that are so short, you're only playing for 5-10 minutes after your amp's warmed up. Less control-tweaking as the tone settles in too, which is also convenient.

The warm-up period isn't THAT long for a tube amp. It shouldn't even be a factor when choosing if you want an amp with tubes in it or not, unless you play gigs where you're supposed to load in, set up on stage, and be into your set in 25 seconds flat.

P.s. I know that tube amps do get to a certain sweet spot point after a while, but IME, it's so subtle that most musicians and sound engineers aren't going to notice it, let alone have it matter to the overall mix that the audience is hearing. Just IME and IMO, of course.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Anyone who can't tell the difference between a tube amp and a tube amp emulation when you run them direct into a recorder is deaf.

+1

But it's more apparent in the guitar world. The Line 6 stuff sounds great when using clean patches, but the overdrive in their solid state stuff (haven't really heard their Bogner tubed stuff) always sounds incredibly canned. If you want good emulation, though, it's not going to come from a couple hundred dollar Line 6 product. You better be ready to pony-up for something from Fractal Audio.

I really dig my VT Deluxe. It's "good enough" for what I use it for, which is an SVT emulator on a couple of songs a night. But it still isn't the same as plugging into the real thing.