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Solid States More Popular Now
- Thread starter ch willie
- Start date
And don't call me dude!!
OK, another crisis averted...awesome! Now let's go make music!
10-4, JimmyM! I'm getting ready to go a giggin'. Hope you are, too.
I'm sure whatever amp we use (or bass or speakers) we'll be PLAYING!
Have a good gig!
A little bass amp history.
To be brief. Tubes were all there were in the beginning.
I still mourn the extinction of the original Sunns. There was nothing like them.
After a slow fitful start SS became the major part of the market with the only widely available tube amps being the Mesa 400 and the SVT and V4B.
I say widely available as the British amps just never were a huge part of the market.
SS bass amps have been popular since the early '70s.
Now there appears to be a slight resurgence in tube interest. There have always been those that by preference and musical genre have consistently wanted tubes.
The new micro heads have brought another advantage to the SS side.
As was said earlier you'd have to do real statistical research but the hybrid seemed to be the top seller actually since its inception.
None of my comments are to be misconstrued to reflect my sound preferences just observed popularity.
Over the years I've gigged excellent examples of the three types and avoided those that didn't do it for me.
So a personal note. One of the warmest and articulate tones with that tube push and tactile feel was a little SS 1x15 combo called a Polytone 101. It always sounded good. It had more cabinet volume than a minibrute as it was the size of a Fender 4x10 Bassman guitar amp. When mic'ed by Killowatts of big PA in SanFrancisco's Golden Gate Park it was incredible. Through huge JBL side fills I was in heaven. Blindfolded you heard a tube amp.
To be brief. Tubes were all there were in the beginning.
I still mourn the extinction of the original Sunns. There was nothing like them.
After a slow fitful start SS became the major part of the market with the only widely available tube amps being the Mesa 400 and the SVT and V4B.
I say widely available as the British amps just never were a huge part of the market.
SS bass amps have been popular since the early '70s.
Now there appears to be a slight resurgence in tube interest. There have always been those that by preference and musical genre have consistently wanted tubes.
The new micro heads have brought another advantage to the SS side.
As was said earlier you'd have to do real statistical research but the hybrid seemed to be the top seller actually since its inception.
None of my comments are to be misconstrued to reflect my sound preferences just observed popularity.
Over the years I've gigged excellent examples of the three types and avoided those that didn't do it for me.
So a personal note. One of the warmest and articulate tones with that tube push and tactile feel was a little SS 1x15 combo called a Polytone 101. It always sounded good. It had more cabinet volume than a minibrute as it was the size of a Fender 4x10 Bassman guitar amp. When mic'ed by Killowatts of big PA in SanFrancisco's Golden Gate Park it was incredible. Through huge JBL side fills I was in heaven. Blindfolded you heard a tube amp.
I think that bass amplification is getting better all the time. I see a shift, for sure. Now we have hybrids. IMO, they don't go far enough to recreate a tube sound. Putting a few preamp tubes ahead of a solid state power amp is not tube nirvana. More has to be done. What I have yet to see is a concept where we can have a sort of very miniaturized push-pull or class A tube circuit ahead of a solid state power section; something of a tube circuit that sounds like it's on the edge, in a more compact, lighter package feeding a reliable, light-weight power section.
We have basically three factions fighting for the bass-players dollar:
The 7 lb. 500 watt solid state 'amp in a pocket', the 75 lb. all tube 25 lb. output transformer sextet of either American or British flavored output tubes (EL34, 6L6, 7027, etc.), or the straight ahead all solid state class A/B or class D amp. I don't think we're there yet. It's much easier for the established big name acts to pull off the tube thingy. Michael Anthony can have 3 VB-2's running a stack of speakers pushing a ton of air because he has paid roadies to unload, setup, tune his bass, and hand it to him as he heads for the stage. Meanwhile, JoeBlow is trying to fit his equipment in the back of his hatchback, carry his own gear (sometimes up a flight of stairs), set it up, and be ready when the big hand gets to the 12 on the clock. On top of that, the modern day bass player has other responsiblities as well. Whether younger or older, many can't afford a thousand dollar head, and I'm not even counting the cost of maintaining it all. So there are tradeoffs.
Bass amplification is not stagnant at all. It's just not at the point where the manufacturers can get a real tube sound with the current hybrid technology. Having been around the circuit since the mid-sixties, I know what the real thing sounds like, so I am not a fan of emulation, let alone some wishy-washy 'transtube' circuitry.
Having gone to other local bar band gigs, I hear the bass player all mashed up in the mix by some guy who is getting paid to twiddle the knobs, so I don't really hear his tube amp sounding like a tube amp out in the crowd. I understand that he may be getting his tube sound on stage, and that's very good. I've also heard a few bands that don't realize, or forget they have PA support and their stage volume is horrendously loud. We're still evolving, as I said, but there's so many variables involved. That's why, I guess, I'm content to schlep around my 50 lb. 212 cab and a solid state head and make it sound the best I can.....until something more revolutionary comes out.
We have basically three factions fighting for the bass-players dollar:
The 7 lb. 500 watt solid state 'amp in a pocket', the 75 lb. all tube 25 lb. output transformer sextet of either American or British flavored output tubes (EL34, 6L6, 7027, etc.), or the straight ahead all solid state class A/B or class D amp. I don't think we're there yet. It's much easier for the established big name acts to pull off the tube thingy. Michael Anthony can have 3 VB-2's running a stack of speakers pushing a ton of air because he has paid roadies to unload, setup, tune his bass, and hand it to him as he heads for the stage. Meanwhile, JoeBlow is trying to fit his equipment in the back of his hatchback, carry his own gear (sometimes up a flight of stairs), set it up, and be ready when the big hand gets to the 12 on the clock. On top of that, the modern day bass player has other responsiblities as well. Whether younger or older, many can't afford a thousand dollar head, and I'm not even counting the cost of maintaining it all. So there are tradeoffs.
Bass amplification is not stagnant at all. It's just not at the point where the manufacturers can get a real tube sound with the current hybrid technology. Having been around the circuit since the mid-sixties, I know what the real thing sounds like, so I am not a fan of emulation, let alone some wishy-washy 'transtube' circuitry.
Having gone to other local bar band gigs, I hear the bass player all mashed up in the mix by some guy who is getting paid to twiddle the knobs, so I don't really hear his tube amp sounding like a tube amp out in the crowd. I understand that he may be getting his tube sound on stage, and that's very good. I've also heard a few bands that don't realize, or forget they have PA support and their stage volume is horrendously loud. We're still evolving, as I said, but there's so many variables involved. That's why, I guess, I'm content to schlep around my 50 lb. 212 cab and a solid state head and make it sound the best I can.....until something more revolutionary comes out.
I've gigged lots of tube powered amp models I didnt like at all, and some solid state powered amps I kinda liked.
For me, the difference between tube vs S/S power is more of a 'feel-thing' than a tone difference.
___________
From reading your posts over the years, I've gotten the feeling you dont even play bass in a band that regularly performs live on stage. (Do you? I'd truly like to know)
I've gotten the Impression your more into the recording end of things. That's cool and all, (I'm into recording too) but until someone has spent decades gigging live on stage with several different genres of bands, I dont think they really have enough first-hand experience to knowledgeably debate the subject of stage gear...
I don't know, bud - IMO, Mesa's Walkabout, M-pulse 600, Big Block 750, and Genz-Benz's Streamliner do the tube thing pretty well...
- georgestrings
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Solid States More Popular Now
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Solid state amps are better now than when they first came out. The transistors are better and the design is better and the tone is better.
I had a Peavey solid state from the Early 70s. It was harsh and unpleasant sounding.
Between my effect and my Ampeg solid state amps I have no need at all for vacuum tubes
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Solid state amps are better now than when they first came out. The transistors are better and the design is better and the tone is better.
I had a Peavey solid state from the Early 70s. It was harsh and unpleasant sounding.
Between my effect and my Ampeg solid state amps I have no need at all for vacuum tubes
+1
I also dont know why people complain about weight of a tube amp. I have one of the heaviest tube amps and it takes me all of 5 minutes to load in/out. If you are toting anything larger than a 410, whats the big deal is bringing an amp that weighs more than 5 pounds.
I hear ya bro, I've got a Peavey Classic 400 too. I love mine, Its a freakin awesome/fire-breathing monster of a bass head!
But I do admit that extra 15lbs over the weight of my tube-powered SVT's does make a big difference to me as far as what amp I choose to haul/gig with. I also kinda worry that I'll accidentally break some of the knob pot-shafts off because the headcase doesn't have a front pannel to protect them. I've been thinking about building some type of (light-weight!) front pannel cover for mine that would be retained by short bungee-cords hooked around the grab handles
I waited to put my twocents worth in. Phil Jones is a great example of how solid state amps have improved. Great discussions, as usual on TB.
Oh I forgot to mention, "I'm a fool" who sometimes replaced my power tubes three times in a year. Playing five and six times a week a gradual deteriation of tone occured as the tubes aged. New tubes restored the bass response of the amp. Power tubes do get weaker with lots of usage.
If you have an 80lb head, it will be the only thing you can carry between the car and the stage. If you have a 15 lb head, you can carry multiple items on that same trip. Lighter gear=fewer trips and an easier load in / out. That seems really simple to me..
This weekend I'll be playing a marina club that requires a load in down a 100+ ft gang plank. You can't park anywhere near the door. I'll be leaving my tube head at home for that gig.
Moving my old SVT any real distance was a pain, especially if I had to open closed doors by myself while lugging that amp around. It sounded good, but my lord it wasn't fun to carry. With my TH500 though, I can carry that bad boy around in my gig bag, thus leaving my hands completely free to grab and open whatever. While I'll give a nod to the SVT for tone, it wasn't so much better that I'd rather use it than my TH500.
The usual suspects are hear, making their usual comments.....as usual. I'll just say this. The "holy" grail of tone is different for everyone, and "bass tone" is constantly being redefined. Some people believe that the last "holy grail" bass amp was created 40 years ago, and that is unfortunate.
At the end of the day, the tonal differences between an SVT and most solid state heads is barely noticeable in a live mix.
I have been playing for 43 years, and grew up in first the tube era, and then the "transition" era, then the solid state era, and to where we are now, which is a blend.
In the tube era, that is all we had with any power. In the late sixties, but mostly the 70's came the notion that tubes were obsolete, and all could be done with solid state. Hell, in those days you would find tube amps in the dumpsters of studios! Then came back the hard reality that transistors can't "do it all" and there are some things that tubes do really well. It doesn't mean one is "better" but they are definitely different.
In the hifi would , some of the best gear is tube. (Contrad Johnson, Audio Research, many others). Why? Because tubes are inherently more linear that transistors, so a tube amp can be built very simply and sound very good. The old addage was that you really wanted your amp to be a "straight wire with gain", and the thinking is that every device you place in the amp adds a nonlinearity that has to be compensated for. All of this extra circuitry takes away from the natural tone you are looking for. One of the most linear active devices ever produced in a 2A3 vacuum tube, and in a single ended triode amp produces around 3 watts. I built two of these around 15 years ago, and today they still reproduce the human voice better than anything I have ever heard. I had to build speakers that are 104dB efficient for them to be loud, and in this combination they are quite loud. I have used them for the sound at an outdoor party, and no one could believe 3 watts was running the show.
In the bass amp would I think it really depends upon the sound you are after. I mostly play through a Reeves Custom 225 and have many cabs (ampeg and mesa). We are a blues band, and people notice my tone. With the Reeves I have people specifically come to me each night and complement me - that they have never heard bass sound so good. Now, I am picky about my rig, and am always working to improve my sound, because I always want my band to sound better.
I don't like tube distortion, that is not hwy I use tube amps. I like the natural warmth and compression when you hit the sweet spot. Most solid state amps don't do this for me. I hear other bassists using solid state, and think they sound great, too. They have found their sound with what they are working with.
I do have two solid state rigs, and have used a an Ampeg micro VR at some very small gigs and it works very well and is a great compromise when either the gig is too small to fit the big rig in and make it work. I think in the end it all works, it just depends upon what you are after.
In the tube era, that is all we had with any power. In the late sixties, but mostly the 70's came the notion that tubes were obsolete, and all could be done with solid state. Hell, in those days you would find tube amps in the dumpsters of studios! Then came back the hard reality that transistors can't "do it all" and there are some things that tubes do really well. It doesn't mean one is "better" but they are definitely different.
In the hifi would , some of the best gear is tube. (Contrad Johnson, Audio Research, many others). Why? Because tubes are inherently more linear that transistors, so a tube amp can be built very simply and sound very good. The old addage was that you really wanted your amp to be a "straight wire with gain", and the thinking is that every device you place in the amp adds a nonlinearity that has to be compensated for. All of this extra circuitry takes away from the natural tone you are looking for. One of the most linear active devices ever produced in a 2A3 vacuum tube, and in a single ended triode amp produces around 3 watts. I built two of these around 15 years ago, and today they still reproduce the human voice better than anything I have ever heard. I had to build speakers that are 104dB efficient for them to be loud, and in this combination they are quite loud. I have used them for the sound at an outdoor party, and no one could believe 3 watts was running the show.
In the bass amp would I think it really depends upon the sound you are after. I mostly play through a Reeves Custom 225 and have many cabs (ampeg and mesa). We are a blues band, and people notice my tone. With the Reeves I have people specifically come to me each night and complement me - that they have never heard bass sound so good. Now, I am picky about my rig, and am always working to improve my sound, because I always want my band to sound better.
I don't like tube distortion, that is not hwy I use tube amps. I like the natural warmth and compression when you hit the sweet spot. Most solid state amps don't do this for me. I hear other bassists using solid state, and think they sound great, too. They have found their sound with what they are working with.
I do have two solid state rigs, and have used a an Ampeg micro VR at some very small gigs and it works very well and is a great compromise when either the gig is too small to fit the big rig in and make it work. I think in the end it all works, it just depends upon what you are after.
