I'll be curious to hear how they sound. . . I care more about the tranny anyway. this might be cool . . .
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SolidState TUBES
- Thread starter PaperbackRyder
- Start date
I wonder if these could be used as emergency "tubes" in case a real one craps out during a gig.
I can see it already: The birth of the new hybrid amp maybe?? A real tube amp with a solid state channel:scowl:
I can see it already: The birth of the new hybrid amp maybe?? A real tube amp with a solid state channel:scowl:
bassman314
I seem to be a verb, an evolutionary process...
Next, we'll see "tubes" with built-in flash memory that one can program the tone they want into it...
Actually... dang... I THOUGHT OF IT FIRST!!!
Actually... dang... I THOUGHT OF IT FIRST!!!
Thangfish
...overly qualified for janitorical deployment...
Radio Shack carried SS replacements for certain tubes back in the day.
Didn't go over that well back then either, but they were for TV and radio stuff.
Didn't go over that well back then either, but they were for TV and radio stuff.
The maker claims these are triodes and generate harmonics like traditional tubes would. It seems he's making a big deal about them being more dynamic, meaning less of that tube compression that's half the magic. It might be interesting to hear them. Too bad they're so poorly explained! The price doesn't help either.
That's nice that they will all perform the same, but how do they sound?
What is the advantage of putting these in a tube amp vs. just buying an SS amp? That isn't really explained in this vid.
What is the advantage of putting these in a tube amp vs. just buying an SS amp? That isn't really explained in this vid.
Mesa Boogie used to ship some of their high gain guitar amps with a tube replacement called a Fetron. The solid state 'tubes' were intended for military applications. Story is the maker changed the recipe and they didn't sound the same afterward so they were discontinued.
Tons of info on Fetron's
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Including schematics if you want to build you're own. There are many options to high voltage SS devices today. Many ways to build a better one these days.
Such a circuit today can sound much different than something built in the 70's
Even then you'll always get "it doesn't sound like my other tube". Given all the tubes on the market, and all the descriptions of of the tube rollers and internet sites, one tube doesn't sound like another tube. Even Mesa only keeps a small percentage of the tubes they test. ToneGrinder/WattGrinder is essentially saying he can take one of the "top" testing tubes, and duplicate the sound, And then consistently recreate the same tube characteristics for every one he makes. He's offering several different voiced tubes - color coded.
I agree though - it doesn't make sense to build any amp with these. I don't see a market. Tube amplifier manufacturers won't buy them. Why put something on a socket that you never have to change. The White Box effects dictates it has to be a tube to sound like a tube. Manufacturers already know this because they keep selling heads with tubes in the preamps. They already know they can't convince people to just take a black box for it's sound - even if it does sound good, if someone can't peak in an see a tube they won't believe it sounds like a tube.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Including schematics if you want to build you're own. There are many options to high voltage SS devices today. Many ways to build a better one these days.
Such a circuit today can sound much different than something built in the 70's
Even then you'll always get "it doesn't sound like my other tube". Given all the tubes on the market, and all the descriptions of of the tube rollers and internet sites, one tube doesn't sound like another tube. Even Mesa only keeps a small percentage of the tubes they test. ToneGrinder/WattGrinder is essentially saying he can take one of the "top" testing tubes, and duplicate the sound, And then consistently recreate the same tube characteristics for every one he makes. He's offering several different voiced tubes - color coded.
I agree though - it doesn't make sense to build any amp with these. I don't see a market. Tube amplifier manufacturers won't buy them. Why put something on a socket that you never have to change. The White Box effects dictates it has to be a tube to sound like a tube. Manufacturers already know this because they keep selling heads with tubes in the preamps. They already know they can't convince people to just take a black box for it's sound - even if it does sound good, if someone can't peak in an see a tube they won't believe it sounds like a tube.
I agree. A tube costs a few bucks and has the instant market appeal of a tube. Why would manufacturers spend more money, just to defend themselves from endless skepticism.
(Sorry, it took some time to write my answere. There were new posts written during that time that mentioned the Fetron)
Ever heard about Fetron?
Link Removed
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
There're several other ways "to make a tube" with FET's.
http://www.runoffgroove.com/fetzervalve.html
Ever heard about Fetron?
Link Removed
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
There're several other ways "to make a tube" with FET's.
http://www.runoffgroove.com/fetzervalve.html
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
"In the early 1990’s Fetron like devices were shown by Kirkwood Radio Labs..."
I have an 80w SS 4x5 mini combo built for me by Kirkwood Rough in the late 90s. It has one of these devices in the preamp. Sounds fine to me.
Kirkwood's lab in San Jose, CA is a wonderful warehouse space, much like a Noah's Ark of amplifiers. He seems to have one of almost everything there. When we were choosing the cab's driver arrangement, I was able to hook up several small cabs. We chose four of the Bose drivers, like the 901 had.
For the most part I agree, a well maintained tube amp isn't that troublesome.
But, solid state amps are usually in the shop FAR less than tube amps. You've gotta bias tube amps, replace tubes, etc, vs just plugging and playing a SS amp. Yeah they have problems, but fewer and further in between.
Also, IMHO and IME a good tube amp beats out 99% of SS amps. End of story. Good tone has a cost. Now to some, that cost isn't worth it. Some, it is.
A high end racecar requires more maintenance than your typical Honda Civic, but which one runs better?
Same with amps. Some drivers (for example, Nascar Drivers) need that high end power that a racecar will delivier, while typical commuters will do fine with a cheap Honda.many Namm shows ago, a guy named Kirkwood Rough (IIRC) was doing the very same thing..... But he had power "tubes" also. I'm trying to remember the company name he had..... it's been a while.
I may still have some of the parts we got from him.... unless I gave them all to a co-worker, which is possible.
The device used for the 12AX7 is a really OLD semiconductor device, a buried gate junction FET.
it is for-real.
he had a tube curve tracer, with a switch between his 12AX7 and a "real" one, which was an NOS US part. You could NOT see a difference, and all the wiring was out in the clear, no secrets, no smoke, no mirrors.
We wanted to partly finance the guy, because we really thought there was potential for the device when used in certain ways which I won't specify here.... (might want to get back into it someday). We were working with him to do a deal, but things just didn't work out for reasons not directly connected with our arrangements, it had to do with access to the semiconductor fab, and willingness on their part to make some process changes.
In any case, there were some excellent reasons why it could have been a really good thing..... when the power "tubes" were part of the mix.
BTW, the demonstration amps at the after-hours private demo sounded good and played well. There is something about a device that does what it does because of inherent characteristics, and is NOT a simulation.
Maybe ol' Kirkwood is involved with this new thing.... I looked on the "about us" page, but didn't see his name.
I may still have some of the parts we got from him.... unless I gave them all to a co-worker, which is possible.
The device used for the 12AX7 is a really OLD semiconductor device, a buried gate junction FET.
it is for-real.
he had a tube curve tracer, with a switch between his 12AX7 and a "real" one, which was an NOS US part. You could NOT see a difference, and all the wiring was out in the clear, no secrets, no smoke, no mirrors.
We wanted to partly finance the guy, because we really thought there was potential for the device when used in certain ways which I won't specify here.... (might want to get back into it someday). We were working with him to do a deal, but things just didn't work out for reasons not directly connected with our arrangements, it had to do with access to the semiconductor fab, and willingness on their part to make some process changes.
In any case, there were some excellent reasons why it could have been a really good thing..... when the power "tubes" were part of the mix.
BTW, the demonstration amps at the after-hours private demo sounded good and played well. There is something about a device that does what it does because of inherent characteristics, and is NOT a simulation.
Maybe ol' Kirkwood is involved with this new thing.... I looked on the "about us" page, but didn't see his name.
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Yes, I recall Kirkwood telling me he (and a few colleagues) pitched their Vudu tubes to Ampeg.
I haven't spoken with him in about five years. He borrowed my amp to demo to some folks in the San Francisco Symphony who wanted compact combos. In return for borrowing my amp, he added the Jensen transformer DI.
BTW, I've run that little amp with an external cab instead of its small drivers and it's loud. The built-in 4x5 drivers worked well when I was playing small acoustic gigs.
I haven't spoken with him in about five years. He borrowed my amp to demo to some folks in the San Francisco Symphony who wanted compact combos. In return for borrowing my amp, he added the Jensen transformer DI.
BTW, I've run that little amp with an external cab instead of its small drivers and it's loud. The built-in 4x5 drivers worked well when I was playing small acoustic gigs.
Well, it may work, but it would turn the price of a VR ridiculously sky high. At $15-20, you can buy 7 or 8 12AX7's for the price of one of these SS tubes.
