SolidState TUBES

[PSPookie]

The joke's on you. ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSK-Mielec_M-15_Belphegor

Just because they made it doesn't mean that it's not dumb

HA! and it's Polish . . . that's priceless

 

[Jim Nazium]

Hmm. It seems to me that there is an important question: How much of the sound of a tube amp is due to the tube itself, and how much is due to the circuit design and output transformer?

If the answer is "not very much", then these things might be a good idea. You'd get the same sound, or close to it, and it might be a bit more reliable. Although as others have said, you could replace a lot of tubes for the price of one of these, and the amp wouldn't be any smaller or lighter.

But if the answer to the above question is "most of it", then, well, this product is pretty much useless.

Doesn't mean people won't buy it though. What did P.T. Barnum say?

 

[wildhorse]

solid state tubes. i love it. kinda like a fretless precision bass...

More like a fretless bass with frets.

 

[Korladis]

Hmm. It seems to me that there is an important question: How much of the sound of a tube amp is due to the tube itself, and how much is due to the circuit design and output transformer?

If the answer is "not very much", then these things might be a good idea. You'd get the same sound, or close to it, and it might be a bit more reliable. Although as others have said, you could replace a lot of tubes for the price of one of these, and the amp wouldn't be any smaller or lighter.

But if the answer to the above question is "most of it", then, well, this product is pretty much useless.

Doesn't mean people won't buy it though. What did P.T. Barnum say?

I agree. If you drop these in and the amp still sounds the same, just as much power and warmth, with soft clipping characteristic of tubes, then it's a very promising idea.

If they do not sound like tubes, they seem pointless to me.

 

[Ric5]

solid state tubes. i love it. kinda like a fretless precision bass...

Jumbo shrimp

 

[JimmyM]

So, what's "a solution in search of a problem" when you can make "tube amps" which have the same sound and playing characteristics but half or less the cost of an amp with glass tubes in it.... AND you will never need to spend a bunch of money on a replacement set of matched tubes?

If they were half or less the cost, I'd be a lot more supportive of the idea. But they're a whole lot more money according to that website, and it's too much to make it cost-effective.

 

[seamonkey]

...
he had a tube curve tracer, with a switch between his 12AX7 and a "real" one, which was an NOS US part. You could NOT see a difference, and all the wiring was out in the clear, no secrets, no smoke, no mirrors.
...

Which 12ax7?

In the infamous Carver test, first time listeners could not hear a difference, after time had passed (months) the listeners were then claiming they could hear a difference. What had changed was the tubes - they wear and have easily measureable wear curves - all well documented in the old tube manuals. Repeating the same above test on a well use tube of 6 months would show something different.

The real downfall of these new devices may be that they don't wear. There would be no reason to tube roll. The yearly smile and long rehearsal where the guitar player gets to talk about his new tubes and how good they sound would be gone. If there's nothing to tweak it would take away from the hobby.

 

[seamonkey]

I agree. If you drop these in and the amp still sounds the same, just as much power and warmth, with soft clipping characteristic of tubes, then it's a very promising idea.

If they do not sound like tubes, they seem pointless to me.

Test gear today is accurate, even a simple PC is very accurate. If tube ans SS tube measure the same they sound the same.

The problem is given 100 new tubes only a certain % are going to measure the same.

These SS tubes are always going to measure the same.

 

[seamonkey]

...

Not to mention that in the coming "new energy world" things like tube amps will probably be banned....or taxed to death..... as horribly inefficient, wasteful, and selfish..........

It's coming.

You also have to look at who's making tubes - This is the last market for tubes. The countries manufacturing tubes are getting on with new technologies with many markets. Even these SS tubes are using generic parts useful in many industries.

 

[Rick Auricchio]

Rick.... Do you have any contact info for KR? I know some folks who would like to talk to him.

PM'ed ya.

 

[hrgiger]

these are for guys who always wanted a tube amp, but were put off by the glass tubes in them...

kinda like that guy that keeps recommending tube emulation software when someone wants a recommendation for a tube amp...

 

[seamonkey]

If I was thinking of emulating tubes, which I'm not, I would take a system-wide approach and go digital.

+1

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

Hmm. It seems to me that there is an important question: How much of the sound of a tube amp is due to the tube itself, and how much is due to the circuit design and output transformer?

If the answer is "not very much", then these things might be a good idea. You'd get the same sound, or close to it, and it might be a bit more reliable. Although as others have said, you could replace a lot of tubes for the price of one of these, and the amp wouldn't be any smaller or lighter.

But if the answer to the above question is "most of it", then, well, this product is pretty much useless.

That's the thing....... I don't know about the ones posted here in this thread..... but the Kirkwood Labs parts WERE tubes...... meaning they measured and sounded like them.

Which is only to be expected, since the particular solid state device that he had in there worked on the same principles, with the same influences on behavior as a tube. In other words, it had inherent to its nature the characteristics of a tube, for both negative and positive grid voltages. It was not a "simulation" in any way.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at "tube simulation" circuits, and even have a patent on one that SLM used for 20 years. I was impressed by the fact that the Kirkwood labs parts did NOT act like "simulations", they acted like tubes.

The old "Fetron" tubes that I saw were in no way 'tubes", but really high voltage JFET devices. Their geometry was such as to be closest to a pentode, but not really very tubish.

The KRL parts were stone triodes.......

 

[mndean]

Not to mention that in the coming "new energy world" things like tube amps will probably be banned....or taxed to death..... as horribly inefficient, wasteful, and selfish..........

Umm, I seriously doubt this would ever happen. How the power is generated is much more important than how it's used, even when it's used is more important. The only serious change that will happen is the cost will go up, just like with gasoline or any other form of energy. Banning electrical equipment (if it ever happened) would take place long after cars are banned. Maybe that old SVT will be looked at askance in around 2095 or so.

 

[Korladis]

That's the thing....... I don't know about the ones posted here in this thread..... but the Kirkwood Labs parts WERE tubes...... meaning they measured and sounded like them.

Which is only to be expected, since the particular solid state device that he had in there worked on the same principles, with the same influences on behavior as a tube. In other words, it had inherent to its nature the characteristics of a tube, for both negative and positive grid voltages. It was not a "simulation" in any way.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at "tube simulation" circuits, and even have a patent on one that SLM used for 20 years. I was impressed by the fact that the Kirkwood labs parts did NOT act like "simulations", they acted like tubes.

The old "Fetron" tubes that I saw were in no way 'tubes", but really high voltage JFET devices. Their geometry was such as to be closest to a pentode, but not really very tubish.

The KRL parts were stone triodes.......

Hmmm... very interesting. Is Kirkwood Labs still around?

 

[Korladis]

Umm, I seriously doubt this would ever happen. How the power is generated is much more important than how it's used, even when it's used is more important. The only serious change that will happen is the cost will go up, just like with gasoline or any other form of energy. Banning electrical equipment (if it ever happened) would take place long after cars are banned. Maybe that old SVT will be looked at askance in around 2095 or so.

Either that or it'll be a museum piece.

 

[okabass]

... but the Kirkwood Labs parts WERE tubes...... meaning they measured and sounded like them.

I was impressed by the fact that the Kirkwood labs parts did NOT act like "simulations", they acted like tubes.

The old "Fetron" tubes that I saw were in no way 'tubes", but really high voltage JFET devices. Their geometry was such as to be closest to a pentode, but not really very tubish.

The KRL parts were stone triodes.......

Yes, very interesting indeed. Can you tell us more about the circuit? It would be very cool to build and try it in real amp.
I remember seeing an SS device in the Net, which gives at least similar curves like a triode.

 

[fdeck]

It's coming.

You also have to look at who's making tubes - This is the last market for tubes. The countries manufacturing tubes are getting on with new technologies with many markets. Even these SS tubes are using generic parts useful in many industries.

It's the last market for tubes, but (current recession notwithstanding), it's a growth market. New models of tube bass gear are being introduced constantly. I'll bet that new tube factories have been built in the past 10 years.

 

[fdeck]

Umm, I seriously doubt this would ever happen. How the power is generated is much more important than how it's used, even when it's used is more important. The only serious change that will happen is the cost will go up, just like with gasoline or any other form of energy. Banning electrical equipment (if it ever happened) would take place long after cars are banned. Maybe that old SVT will be looked at askance in around 2095 or so.

+1

Your audience consumes more energy traveling to your gigs, than your amp consumes.

I know that I'm dreaming, but... maybe live music will be seen as a way to help maintain the vitality of downtown areas that can be served by public transportation.

 

[Korladis]

+1

Your audience consumes more energy traveling to your gigs, than your amp consumes.

I know that I'm dreaming, but... maybe live music will be seen as a way to help maintain the vitality of downtown areas that can be served by public transportation.

I take public transport to most shows I see.