Double Bass Soloing skills still weak...

[logdrum]

Dave Holland is not too much of a thumb position guy but he has very effective solos and so was Charlie Haden. Or you can just be pure energy like William Parker.

Play the head. Sing it while you walk or vamp. Motifs will help you too. And your lines does not have to be always harmonically justified. I think that's what causes uninteresting uninspired solos, when as a soloist you overthink the chord structure too much. Back to learning the head, listen to Christian McBride's solo on James with Pat Metheny and Michael Brecker. His solo was composed of variations of the verse and chorus,

In Gypsy tradition, the kid is told to play 1-4 notes while the band accompanies and they develop the sense of rhythmic variation and tonal expression.

Another way is just to keep on walking when it's your time to solo and then just break it up and put little dabs of eight notes and triplets, quote the head a couple bars and then walk back.

 

[glocke1]

Dave Holland is not too much of a thumb position guy but he has very effective solos and so was Charlie Haden. Or you can just be pure energy like William Parker.

Play the head. Sing it while you walk or vamp. Motifs will help you too. And your lines does not have to be always harmonically justified. I think that's what causes uninteresting uninspired solos, when as a soloist you overthink the chord structure too much. Back to learning the head, listen to Christian McBride's solo on James with Pat Metheny and Michael Brecker. His solo was composed of variations of the verse and chorus,

In Gypsy tradition, the kid is told to play 1-4 notes while the band accompanies and they develop the sense of rhythmic variation and tonal expression.

Another way is just to keep on walking when it's your time to solo and then just break it up and put little dabs of eight notes and triplets, quote the head a couple bars and then walk back.

Yeah...Im taking a step back from trying to do a "real" solo, and just playing the melody...

Honestly it is all a very humbling process..Here I was thinking I was a fairly competent bassist, but than throw a set of changes in front of me and ask me to solo, and Im shown otherwise.

I wish I would have stuck with this and persevered through all of this 25-30 years ago instead of giving up because it was "too hard".

 

[Jason Hollar]

As others have mentioned, I find the melody is king. Learn the lyrics (if applicable) and yes try to sing along.

Another cool thing to help keep your place is work on a song that you can play the melody as well as some chord accents - Autumn Leaves and Don’t Get Around Much - come to mind.

Next step is to learn more intricate Bop heads - these are a blast to play with the other cats.

I’ll let you know once I’ve mastered improvisation - lol - but this is what I practice.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I’m also in Manhattan one night s week for a NYJA workshop so might try to find something up there also.

If you can possibly coordinate your schedule and his, I highly recommend getting in touch with Joe Solomon. He has an excellent methodology for teaching the skill sets needed to truly improvise in the jazz idiom (which can inform ALL styles of music one would want to play). His studio number is 212-741-2839.

 

[lurk]

Get The Improvised Melodic Line by Mike Longo. He publishes himself. It's a step by step approach to playing your own solos. He's a little quirky and wrote it apparently before good music notation software was easily available, but it's wonderful.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

- Start with focusing on ONE TUNE. Become an expert in that tune. Be able to sing the melody while playing the roots, and be able to play the melody on your bass. Be able to arpeggiate every chord 2 octaves of that tune. Arpeggiate all of the chords through the tune in 8th notes. Keep working with ONLY this tune until you are confident and comfortable.

-That first tip involves focus and practice. NOT IMPROVISATION (soloing). Once you are confident that you know the tune and can't get lost within it's form, begin working on improvisations over the song with a metronome or play-along in a slow tempo. If you've done the work above, it should free your mind and hands a little bit so you can turn your attention to phrasing, rhythm, and melody formation.

-TO SLOW DOWN YOUR MIND: You do not need to play over every chord. You do not need to start your improvisation in the first measure. You do not need to show any form of technical virtuosity, as creating a melody on-the-spot is in itself virtuosic. Avoid playing constant 8th notes, and instead play RHYTHMS. Focus on rhythm when you play, not necessarily your note choices. That is, let the rhythm guide your note choices. Play SIMPLY, the other stuff will fall into order. Do not attempt to play anything that is technically beyond your abilities. Just try to get simple ideas across for the listener to understand, as if you were playing to a child who wants to hear a melody they can sing back.

-Record yourself soloing. Listen back the next day and critique yourself. Be constructive (and kind) about your improvisation. Do you have any "isms" or "ticks" in your playing? If so, take note and try to eliminate them.

-Choose a new tune, repeat....

It's also valuable to work with a teacher who is an expert in improvisation...

This is excellent feedback. Thanks!

 

[saabfender]

Play less.

 

[matthewbrown]

I hire good soloists for my gigs. So I play few solos, and only on tunes I am solid with. And I keep them short -- usually half the form on a ballad, at most one chorus. When hired by others, I ask if they could skip having bass solos, unless there is a tune I feel I can contribute one to effectively. A bass solo that's inserted into a tune with no real musical reason for it is a bass solo that doesn't need to be played. And then in practice, I focus on mastering a few tunes that speak to me as a soloist, and request that we play them. This goes for EB, too.

 

[glocke1]

I hire good soloists for my gigs. So I play few solos, and only on tunes I am solid with. And I keep them short -- usually half the form on a ballad, at most one chorus. When hired by others, I ask if they could skip having bass solos, unless there is a tune I feel I can contribute one to effectively. A bass solo that's inserted into a tune with no real musical reason for it is a bass solo that doesn't need to be played. And then in practice, I focus on mastering a few tunes that speak to me as a soloist, and request that we play them. This goes for EB, too.

I get all that. My whole thing with this is that I feel it’s a skill I need to be able to do competently.

 

[matthewbrown]

I get all that. My whole thing with this is that I feel it’s a skill I need to be able to do competently.

I'd also recommend Hal Crook's book HOW TO IMPROVISE. His approach is a good one for bassists, because he covers ALL the ways you can build interest into your solos.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

This.
Courtesy of Ed Fuqua. Thank you Ed.

REALLY Learning a tune

 

[oren]

Back in the 70s I was in a jazz program in college that was led by Scott Reeves, who now leads his own big band in NY (
Scott Reeves ). Scott taught jazz improv with all the techniques that have become normal now, but were quite innovative back then - modes and scales for chords, learning transcribed solos, etc. I have to admit that I was not a very good student back then and was too impatient to really do the work. About three or four years back I started really working on all those things, and still am. I sent Scott an email letting him know that I had finally matured to a point where I was doing the things he told us to do 40 years ago. I think he got a chuckle out of that. I guess the moral of the story is it’s never too late to learn, and some of us take a long time to grow up!

 

[Andrew Hall]

"Please don't hang me out to dry, you fooking ********!"...alternatively, I mentioned to the guitarist the other night, 'I really like it when you accompany me when I solo'. that worked too.

 

[glocke1]

Back in the 70s I was in a jazz program in college that was led by Scott Reeves, who now leads his own big band in NY (
Scott Reeves ). Scott taught jazz improv with all the techniques that have become normal now, but were quite innovative back then - modes and scales for chords, learning transcribed solos, etc. I have to admit that I was not a very good student back then and was too impatient to really do the work. About three or four years back I started really working on all those things, and still am. I sent Scott an email letting him know that I had finally matured to a point where I was doing the things he told us to do 40 years ago. I think he got a chuckle out of that. I guess the moral of the story is it’s never too late to learn, and some of us take a long time to grow up!

Yeah. In my younger years I just don't think I was ever in a position to really put what I was practicing to use...No jazz people at my level were around or easily accessible, the ones that really knew how to play the stuff I was really just too intimidated by to be around, and than add to that a certain level of frustration I'd get when I hit a wall and that means I'd give up until I tried again years later.

I think things are getting better.. NYJA workshop teacher commented that Im making some good strides in my soloing and playing in general. It's really making me feel like I never knew how to play to begin with and that Im more or less re-learning the instrument, which is what I guess what is really going on.

Still a ways to go with this stuff but Im sticking it out...

 

[bass183]

Be patient. Bassists are generally the last players to learn to solo. That's because we aren't required to learn the melodies, we aren't always given a chance to solo, and most of what we play is root based to support a soloist or singer.

Here area some ideas: Transcribe as much as you can--bassists, saxophonists, trumpet players, etc. And transcribe by ear & memorize a solo -- don't write anything down at first. Start with something easy like Lester Young's solo on "Them There Eyes." Learn it by ear and learn to sing it by memory. Then learn it by ear on your instrument.

Learn melodies by ear (always learn to sing them) and learn them on the bass. The concept of motivic development will sink in eventually. That will help your soloing.

Write your own solos to a standard--start with an easy standard like Satin Doll or a blues. "Steal" or "borrow" ideas from others--don't limit yourself to just bassists. You need to learn the language. How do you do that? You mimic what others have done, much in the same way we learn to speak a language.

This has also been very helpful for me when learning to memorize a tune: come up with an easy 3-4 note motivic idea. Maybe 1-2-3-1. Come up with a rhythmic idea that will fit those notes. Keep it easy, but find a hip & simple rhythmic idea. Go through the changes and play that motif. It might be harder than you think at first. Do this from memory as much as possible. You can also do this with only 3rd & 7ths.

Sit at a piano and sing the melody of your tune of choice and play on the piano the root of each chord. That will help you internalize how the melody works with the changes. Also sing the root notes of the changes, and if you can play the melody on the piano (or if you can, on the bass).

Study harmony. This is an ongoing journey. You should be able to look at any tune and analyze it quickly. Pay attention to how chords function within the context of a song.

Learn to play the progressions--I-VI-ii-V; iii-vi-ii-V; I-IV-V; ii-Vs, I-IV-iii-vi; back door progression, etc. The standards use only a few basic progressions. Study the standards. They all kind of share similar progressions. You'll start to see that when you learn how to analyze the functional harmony of a tune.

Learn to play 2 bar phrases, then 3 bar phrases, the 4...

Learn to play harmonic minor licks over a minor ii7b5-V7b9. You'll notice most players do that in a blues on the 8th bar before the big ii-V. Learn to play melodic minor over any dominant chord, the melodic minor starting on the 5th of the dom chord (G7, play D mel. minor).

And finally... Gary Peacock has a really great instructional video that is available for free on youtube. Here is a link to one of the videos where he talks about functional harmony. Very insightful.

Have fun!

Yeah...Im taking a step back from trying to do a "real" solo, and just playing the melody...

Honestly it is all a very humbling process..Here I was thinking I was a fairly competent bassist, but than throw a set of changes in front of me and ask me to solo, and Im shown otherwise.

I wish I would have stuck with this and persevered through all of this 25-30 years ago instead of giving up because it was "too hard".

 

[bass183]

Easier said than done given my location and work schedule. Local guy can fit me in once a month which might be enough. I’m also in Manhattan one night s week for a NYJA workshop so might try to find something up there also.

If you study with a teacher once a month, a good teacher will give you enough material to work through for that duration of time. I had to do that for about a year and a half w/ one of my teachers. For me at the time, I didn't have the $ for weekly lessons. So I'd schedule a lesson about every 4-5 weeks. I made a lot of headway as a player during that time.

 

[glocke1]

If you study with a teacher once a month, a good teacher will give you enough material to work through for that duration of time. I had to do that for about a year and a half w/ one of my teachers. For me at the time, I didn't have the $ for weekly lessons. So I'd schedule a lesson about every 4-5 weeks. I made a lot of headway as a player during that time.

I'm still on the lookout for one..there have been a couple of names posted here I need to follow up on, will probably do so this weekend.

Honestly though I think I just need to play this stuff more with actual people and work on implementing the concepts and ideas I've been studying all these years. Taking lessons and getting more information at this point would be helpful, but doing more actual playing would be even more helpful.

NYJA instructor has also said Im making some significant strides. For the guys there to comment like that is rather significant...What I mean is while they are nice, they are also honest and at times "very direct" in their feedback and critique. No sugar coating there lol..which is a trait I like.

It's a humbling journey. Here I was thinking I am a fairly competent bass player, and I guess in the genre I play in mostly (rock/jam band) I am...Playing the jazz stuff is making me feel like I am essentially learning how to replay my instrument all over again.

 

[bass183]

I'm still on the lookout for one..there have been a couple of names posted here I need to follow up on, will probably do so this weekend.

Honestly though I think I just need to play this stuff more with actual people and work on implementing the concepts and ideas I've been studying all these years. Taking lessons and getting more information at this point would be helpful, but doing more actual playing would be even more helpful.

NYJA instructor has also said Im making some significant strides. For the guys there to comment like that is rather significant...What I mean is while they are nice, they are also honest and at times "very direct" in their feedback and critique. No sugar coating there lol..which is a trait I like.

It's a humbling journey. Here I was thinking I am a fairly competent bass player, and I guess in the genre I play in mostly (rock/jam band) I am...Playing the jazz stuff is making me feel like I am essentially learning how to replay my instrument all over again.

I totally hear ya. I too came from playing electric bass for many years (we're talking a few decades) mostly in original rock bands of many different variaties, and some blues/americana/r&b cover bands. My electric playing was really good/sound. When I switched to upright bass and studying jazz at the same time, it was as if my whole world flipped on its head. Suddenly, I stunk at playing. lol. And I've been playing music since I was in gradeschool--played school bands, jazz bands, pit orchestras, etc. Not only was I learning a completely new instrument, I was learning a new musical language. I still feel like I'm learning to play jazz and it's been about 7-8 years since I made that switch. It's an ongoing journey.

Learning jazz standards, really learning how the harmony functions for these songs, has made my overall musicianship that much better. It can be a slow and humbling process as you know, but it's worth it. And you know, the more songs you learn, the more you start to see the simplicity of the changes, even when they present themselves as complex.

I can't stress more how important it is to memorize these songs. Ed Fuqua on here has posted Joe Solomon's method, which is very helpful. I think it's also helpful to sit with pencil and paper and chart out the changes and label them with roman numerals so that you begin to understand how the harmony functions. You're working a different part of the brain that way. Pick one really easy standard to work with. Satin Doll or Take the A Train (these two are must know tunes anyway) are good ones to start. Work on it everyday, even if it's for 30 minutes. Cop some ideas from recordings. Better yet, transcribe a solo. Move on to the next easy tune. Your ability to memorize will get better and your ability to play (walk and solo) the changes will get better too.

Good luck, have fun and be patient