Some PA questions from a newb. EV content.

[Downunderwonder]

Yes. Although many prefer the loud mud because they never heard clean loud.

 

[jad]

...So my question is, in this type of situation, is the sub really just used only for the kick drum?

You spec'ed a Mix Wiz, right? Low cut filters on that board are in the 80 Hz to 100 Hz range. Your crossover frequency for the EV set up is probably right around 100 HZ. Generally, low cut filters are used on everything except kick, bass, keys, between set music and maybe floor tom. So those will make up most, if not all, of what the sub(s) see. Even then, it's only the very lowest end of the range for those instruments.

 

[nogoodwithnames]

You spec'ed a Mix Wiz, right? Low cut filters on that board are in the 80 Hz to 100 Hz range. Your crossover frequency for the EV set up is probably right around 100 HZ. Generally, low cut filters are used on everything except kick, bass, keys, between set music and maybe floor tom. So those will make up most, if not all, of what the sub(s) see. Even then, it's only the very lowest end of the range for those instruments.

I understand that there is very little that actually makes it to the sub yes, I'm just trying to learn how all this stuff works. Appreciate the input.

 

[modulusman]

Exactly why I asked the question, this is the kinda stuff I want to learn. I know it will be a lot of trial and error. So my question is, in this type of situation, is the sub really just used only for the kick drum?

If you run your onstage amp loud then it may cause low end mud. You might find that you can downsize your bass rig at gigs and still put the bass in the PA.

 

[tbirdsp]

Well - we hooked up our ELX112P's + ELX118P tonight at rehearsal in the singer's basement. Sounded great at first - then I noticed the EV logo light on one of the 112's had gone out. Went over to check it out. Logo switch was still on - light out. Power light was still on - but no sound!
It's going back tomorrow (we bought it at a local sound company/dealer). We are not happy, to say the least.

 

[modulusman]

Well - we hooked up our ELX112P's + ELX118P tonight at rehearsal in the singer's basement. Sounded great at first - then I noticed the EV logo light on one of the 112's had gone out. Went over to check it out. Logo switch was still on - light out. Power light was still on - but no sound!
It's going back tomorrow (we bought it at a local sound company/dealer). We are not happy, to say the least.

Did you check to make sure the power cord was plugged in tightly to the cabinet?

 

[Tunaman]

Damn, now you guys have me considering 12s... specifically the QSC K12... light, not too bad priced if you find a 15% off coupon!

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K12

 

[tbirdsp]

Did you check to make sure the power cord was plugged in tightly to the cabinet?

The power light (the switch itself lights up) was on - so it had power. Not sure what you are getting at?

 

[nutdog]

Full band in PA thoughts:

Setups: Mackie 1501 sub with 2 JBL eon 15 mains. db tech monitors (2 15's and 2 12's)

Or, 2 QSC k12's with one KW181 sub. 2 K10 monitors.

Or, a mix and match of the above depending on the situation.

Mixer: Previously Mackie or Yamaha but now Mackie dl1608.

We bring the sub for the kick. If I'm going to carry a big heavy sub, why not use it for bass and not carry a big bass rig?

First note: some sort of high passing on the bass is vital. Bass through the pa subs is hard to control without it.

So with that in mind I recommend going with a digital mixer that has that feature on each channel. I really like the mackie. For about what a mixwiz costs I got a the dl and a used ipad. It has multiple racks worth of gear in one 8lb box.

Problem with drums and bass rig carrying the room: They have to be cranked. Then monitors have to be cranked because you're standing right next to cranked drums and bass and you can't hear the vocals. Personally, I like setting the volume I want to hear and then letting the PA fill the room.

Any of the above rigs will easily fill a 100-300 room. The bands I'm play with run from acoustic solo to 9 piece oldies with horns with rock trio, foursome and fivesome in between. We always have volume to spare.

IMO the EV system with one sub will do fine but go digital on the mixer. I chose QSC because everyone else seemed to be saying "It's just as good as the QSC".

 

[modulusman]

The power light (the switch itself lights up) was on - so it had power. Not sure what you are getting at?

Not enough coffee yet. I didn't see the part of your post where you said the power light was still on.

 

[Tunaman]

So nut dog...

2 QSC k12's with one KW181 sub

Ever play this in big venues or outside?

 

[tbirdsp]

Not enough coffee yet. I didn't see the part of your post where you said the power light was still on.

No problem. Yeah it's strange - these speakers have this "EV" logo on the front that lights up. There is a switch in back to turn it on and off though. We had the logos on. While rehearsing I noticed the volume went down slightly. Looked at the speakers and the logo on this ELX112P - (we were running mono chained like this: mixer>ELX112P>ELX118P>ELX112P) which was the last in the chain - was off. Went over to check it and saw that the power light was still on. Tried the logo switch and the logo still wouldn't turn on. Then I had the singer check her mic and noticed there was no output. We were running at low volume with only vocals through the PA. I had checked the system earlier with a MP3 player, but not loud at all.
It just seems weird that these would be wired so the power light could be on but the silly logo light out. Some kind of internal fuse maybe? Regardless - brand new under warranty - it's going back today.

 

[Session1969]

I wanted to mention that I bought a Yamaha DSR setup w/12's and 18's. I a/b'd them against the QSC K series and they blew the k series out of the water. I could tell immediatley. If you can go the 2500 then you should be able to pick up the tops for $775 ea. and the sub(s)for $850 like I did. They're arguabley the best at that price point.

 

[Tunaman]

I wanted to mention that I bought a Yamaha DSR setup w/12's and 18's. I a/b'd them against the QSC K series and they blew the k series out of the water. I could tell immediatley. If you can go the 2500 then you should be able to pick up the tops for $775 ea. and the sub(s)for $850 like I did. They're arguabley the best at that price point.

Where? I was quoted higher than that for the Yammys?

I'd love to get those

My only knock against those is a HUGE weight increase vs the JBL PRX line

 

[Bufalo]

Prices are very agreeable on DSR and DXR series Yamaha gear at Northern Sound & Light.

 

[nutdog]

So nut dog...

2 QSC k12's with one KW181 sub

Ever play this in big venues or outside?

It's not a stadium rig. We've done some smaller outdoor pool party type stuff and a couple of bigger rooms. What works for us is to play at a reasonable volume for people near the band and don't try to fill the entire huge room. Dance floor is pumpin', people in the back can talk.

But for the average bar/party band two powered 12s and a sub should do the job, IMHO.

I should also mention the main reason I went with QSC was because the drummer bought the k12's and 181. I added the k10's. Seemed to make sense to stick to same brand. The 10's are a nice compromise between capability and portability. They work very nice for smaller gigs as mains. With a bass with onboard pre it makes a decent small bass combo.

I wanted to mention that I bought a Yamaha DSR setup w/12's and 18's. I a/b'd them against the QSC K series and they blew the k series out of the water. I could tell immediatley.

I'm curious about how you a/b'd them. Don't get me wrong, I like yamaha stuff. I compared reviews of EV, QSC, Yamaha, JBL, Mackie and could probably find a "this brand blew this brand out of the water" for any of them. Ultimately the drummer made the decision easy for me.

My guess is they are all pretty good for their price point/size. What I really wanted to believe was that two EV zxa-1's and one or two zxa1 subs would suffice. I may still try the sub at some point. 19lbs for the tops and 40 for the sub. Wouldn't that be a dream load out?

 

[tbirdsp]

I heard a band that just mixed from the stage but with two K12's and two K-sub's. I just could not believe the awesome sound that was coming out of this relatively compact setup! The kick drum sounded great, and the mic was some piece of crap just laid inside the drum. Room was a medium size bar. Not sure of the bass was coming through the PA or not - he had a rack rig with an Ampeg 410. Bass was mixed well volume-wise but had the typical mid-scoop mud going on - bleah.

 

[Session1969]

Where? I was quoted higher than that for the Yammys?

I'd love to get those

My only knock against those is a HUGE weight increase vs the JBL PRX line

World of Stereo , Petaluma, Ca. As far as weight goes, it didn't matter to me because it takes two to put tops on, anyway. The plastic cabs just don't sound as good. No contest.

 

[Session1969]

It's not a stadium rig. We've done some smaller outdoor pool party type stuff and a couple of bigger rooms. What works for us is to play at a reasonable volume for people near the band and don't try to fill the entire huge room. Dance floor is pumpin', people in the back can talk.

But for the average bar/party band two powered 12s and a sub should do the job, IMHO.

I should also mention the main reason I went with QSC was because the drummer bought the k12's and 181. I added the k10's. Seemed to make sense to stick to same brand. The 10's are a nice compromise between capability and portability. They work very nice for smaller gigs as mains. With a bass with onboard pre it makes a decent small bass combo.



I'm curious about how you a/b'd them. Don't get me wrong, I like yamaha stuff. I compared reviews of EV, QSC, Yamaha, JBL, Mackie and could probably find a "this brand blew this brand out of the water" for any of them. Ultimately the drummer made the decision easy for me.

My guess is they are all pretty good for their price point/size. What I really wanted to believe was that two EV zxa-1's and one or two zxa1 subs would suffice. I may still try the sub at some point. 19lbs for the tops and 40 for the sub. Wouldn't that be a dream load out?

Well, dream loads like plastic cabs sound thinner. Knowing what I've learned, I can't do that if I'm looking to be competitive. I a/b'd them them listening to funk music with both systems set up. I was looking to not buy Yamaha because I heard one before that I thought sucked and QSC has a better name, so I thought. Not the case at all as it turns out. The difference was enough to where I didn't bother asking the price of the k's. It was very noticeable in terms of depth of tone and how the vocals sounded. Absolutely amazing for a small to mid level p.a.

I do agree that any of the models you're talking about are awesome to have. Just having subs and decent tops really put you on the track of being competitive vs. Garage style sound. When d.j.'s come to the smallest bar, they bring their subs, why shouldn't we ? Lol ! It's not about being loud. It's so the kids can feel the music as much as hear it. It's a minimum standard nowadays, imo.

 

[nutdog]

I'll probably never have the opportunity to hear the competing systems in the same room. But I will say I've heard tremendous sound difference just by moving the sub a few feet or making EQ adjustments.

I'm just the "hobby bass player that cares about the overall sound so I do the sound, too" guy. It's all been a learning experience. I hated the mackie sub until we got mixers with HPF. Now I dig it. I'm only recently really starting to like our total sound, stage and FOH. The bass needs some mid boost because the PA stuff doesn't have the built in humps most bass cabs have.

Lately I've been placing my rig behind the drummer and me, barely turned up, with some bass in the monitors. It really fills up the stage without being loud. I dig what you're saying about not loud, but feelable. I've been saying that to the church sound guy for years.