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Some Shade from Ron Carter

Dr. Cheese

Dr. Cheese

Supporting Member
Mar 3, 2004
57,351
120,773
Metro St. Louis
#1


I can't argue Funk isn't repetitive; it's just that the sort of Funk he is taking about is passé. A lot of younger bass guitarists in Gospel and others genres are playing in more Jamerson inspired approach where basslines constantly evolve. The great irony was that when Carter was a young man, Jamerson, a fellow Detroit native, was demonstrating every day on the radio just how free flowing basslines in Pop music could be if he had gotten off his high horse and really listened.
 
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#5
The quote doesn't seem all that "shady" to me. It sounds like he doesn't enjoy the pressure of constantly varying his part. There's a lot of virtue in controlling the height and shape of a plant...

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#6
Both approaches are exerting control, just to different ends. I tend to be more the "planting seeds" type myself. Even with my own invented bass lines, I think I'd be disappointed with myself if I played them the same way every time.

I think Ron just needed to listen to more / different electric bassists. I might recommend Jack Casady and Jack Bruce. And maybe that Jack-Oh guy. ;)
 
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#7
Well, he's kind of right (and the quote does start off on a praiseworthy note). I have little doubt that Jamerson played the way he did because he was a jazz player transplanted onto electric. Having said that, there are plenty of bass lines played on upright that are repetitive riffs and there's nothing like a good riff. It all comes down to context, and in many contexts to vary a line too much is to kill the power of the riff. I'm pretty sure RC knows that.
 
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#8
Ron Carter was probably a big part of why I did not like acoustic bass when I was young. Mr. Carter is a great bassist, but pretty narrow minded. To my mind bass guitar and string bass are two different instruments that play in the same register like tuba, trombone, and bass clarinet. They all bring something different to the table.
 
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#9
I'm stuck on his first sentence:

Dr. Cheese said:
Ron Carter said:
"I admire an electric bass players ability to play the same line the whole tune, wherever that tune comes along, and not vary that zone... "
Click to expand...

Why does he draw a distinction between electric/acoustic upright/guitar here
when I think he's speaking about the role of the bass in particular genre(s) of music, or particular pieces?

There are plenty of repetetive upright acoustic bass lines in classical music,
where playing the same line consistently and correctly "in the zone" is expected.
So it's not about the instrument; it's about the role of the bass, right?
 
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#13
jerry said:
Nothing really new, he's always had those opinions even back in the day when he doubled.
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Yes, I remember reading this sort of thing back in the Seventies and Eighties. Ultimately, he really loves acoustic bass and he is threatened by bass guitar. Bass guitars have been used to create good music most of his adult life. He was 23 in 1960 and by 1968, one could point to any number of innovative bass guitarists. Ron Carter is who I have tried not to be as Rap pushed Funk and R&B aside. It is not easy to try to appreciate music that is not based on the aesthetic under which one developed, but a broad minded person tries to do it. The funny thing is that I have come to love acoustic Jazz and string bass. It is a truly beautiful sounding instrument.
 
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#16
Dr. Cheese said:


I can't argue Funk isn't repetitive; it's just that the sort of Funk he is taking about is passé. A lot of younger bass guitarists in Gospel and others genres are playing in more Jamerson inspired approach where basslines constantly evolve. The great irony was that when Carter was a young man, Jamerson, a fellow Detroit native, was demonstrating every day on the radio just how free flowing basslines in Pop music could be if he had gotten off his high horse and really listened.
Click to expand...



I think he totally misunderstands. A good repetitive bassline can be hypnotic and enjoyable to play, but it takes an appreciation for the style of music rather than determination and discipline. The player focuses holistically on all aspects of the groove and not just the bass line. You sort of become one with the music.

I do think it would take determination and discipline for Ron Carter to play a repetitive pop bass line, because it's not his bag and I think he would find it incredibly boring. It's unfortunate that he seems bitter and a bit judgmental about it.
 
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#18
jerry said:
In a recent Downbeat interview Branford Marsalis said one of my favorite current "jazz" favorites Robert Glasper wasn't really jazz. High level jazz cats just have strong opinions.
Click to expand...

I remember when Wynton Marsalis was young and even more outspoken. Anthony Jackson said in Bass Player, I think, "you are guys are dressing up in suits like they did in the Fifties; are you going to shoot up drugs too?"
 
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