Someone help me ! I suck !!

[K2000]

Yeah... I should not have said that he's not ready to play with a drummer.

One good piece of advice I've heard... approach your instrument like it's a drum. That keeps you in a rythmic frame of mind. It really works, IMO. Even fiddle players talk about playing their instrument (approaching it) like a drum.

 

[Jim Roseberry]

My sense of rhythm is really crappy. I always practice with a metronome, but I still have difficulty syncing up with a drum track, even something simple.

Any pointers on practice techniques that target rhythm would be greatly appreciated !

Not sure of your age...
But if you're still in school, Marching Band can do wonders for developing your sense of rhythm/time/phrase.

Some basic sticking lessons (practice pad and sticks) could also be very helpful.

Can you not feel the rhythm/time... or are you simply having trouble reproducing what you're feeling on the bass.
If it's the latter, you just need more time with the instrument... to develope greater proficiency.


Jim Roseberry
www.studiocat.com
[email protected]

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I said the bass player is NOT the timekeeper of the band... that's the drummer's job. I said everyone follows the drummer.

If you think that's the way it ALWAYS goes down you seriously need to re-think it.

Lets say you flub the rythym, while playing bass. The drummer doesn't slow down so you can sync up... it should be up to you to jump back into HIS time.

First off I don't really know what you mean by "flub the rhythm". Speeding up? Slowing down? Dropping a beat? Adding a beat? Trying to force a son clave over a tango? Doubling the time in the wrong place.....what? Regardless though my point is it DOESN'T MATTER WHO GOES WITH WHOM AS LONG AS YOU ALL GET BACK ON IT TOGETHER ASAP. It all about an equal musical partnership and LISTENING and not being blindly bound to any stupid rules. Personality plays a huge role and the time leadership can vary from band to band, from night to night, song to song even.

Lets say the drummer really flubs the rythym. Does the whole band keep charging ahead, stubbornly forcing the drummer to figure out where he should be? No! The whole band should instantly adjust to the drummer's time.

In a band situation, the drummer is always the timekeeper. NOT the bass player! This should be a no-brainer. The drummer doesn't follow the bass, in a competent functional band... not ever. Everyone follows the drummer.

Let's say the drummer does "flub the rhythm" I'm not for a minute suggesting you "keep charging ahead"....that's not listening is it? A lot of what happens in those split seconds depends on things like does the drummer realize he **** ed up? If so maybe he's looking for someone to clue him back into the downbeat of the next bar and he WANTS someone to follow there. Does the singer realize anything happened? Often they don't and then it can be waaaaaay less of a train wreck to go where the singer wants to go.
OK, say the drummer drops a beat coming out of a fill into the chorus. The bass, keys and guitar haven't had time to react together and go with the drummer before the singer comes in with the guitar part he always cues off of? According to you everyone should drop a beat go to where the drummer is.......I'm saying the chances of that happening with everyone doing it at the same time in a smooth, seamless way are slim to none even for the most accomplished players with the hugest ears and intuition. What's probably gonna happen in that situation is the drummer is either gonna do a little fill and add the beat back or he's gonna do a little stutter and drop another beat to get back.

If you say and think "no-brainer" then brainless is exactly how you'll play in a situation where time weirdness is going on. It may work some of the time but getting a train wreck back on the rails or better still shutting it down before it wrecks is a matter of big ears and instant reaction and sometimes someone other than the drummer is gonna be the one who makes the decision. In a "competent functional band" the whole band keeps it as musical as possible and does what makes the most musical sense without a fight.

Like I said, this is assuming everyone is competent. if your drummer can't keep solid time, then that's a totally different thread.

Yeah, I'm not talking about bad drummers either....that is a different thread. And don't think I don't know what you're talking about here and that I don't agree that very often it's the most musical thing to do to follow the drummer. But my only real point is that you always have to do what's most musical and if it's following the singer or the guitar in a given situation then that's what you have to be prepared to do. If you're not flexible then that's gonna reflect in the music and the music will suffer.

 

[Nenor]

Not sure of your age...
But if you're still in school, Marching Band can do wonders for developing your sense of rhythm/time/phrase.

Some basic sticking lessons (practice pad and sticks) could also be very helpful.

Can you not feel the rhythm/time... or are you simply having trouble reproducing what you're feeling on the bass.
If it's the latter, you just need more time with the instrument... to develope greater proficiency.


Jim Roseberry
www.studiocat.com
[email protected]

I would say this and more...
You should divide your problem into two parts:
One is your natural abilities of sensing time - a simple repeated puls.
Second is your technical abilities on the instrument.

If you have a major problem with the first part you should consider switching to a different hobby. Go to a party and dance! Do you have problems with anticipating your moves? Try to tap the beat. More problems? No good!

If there are no problems on the dancing floor go home, find a good teacher, take your bass and practice weeks and months - out of time. Don't bother using a metronom, just learn the music content and repeat it on and on. You will eventually play in time, or to be more correct - with a good sense of time - whitch is what needed to be a great bassist, among some other stuff.

 

[K2000]

If you think that's the way it ALWAYS goes down you seriously need to re-think it.

Well I was responding to this:

"Of course, I agree that as a bass player, its your job to establish the time."

Um, NO IT'S NOT.

First off I don't really know what you mean by "flub the rhythm".

LOL... whatever dude...

Regardless though my point is it DOESN'T MATTER WHO GOES WITH WHOM AS LONG AS YOU ALL GET BACK ON IT TOGETHER ASAP.

Right. And that doesn't happen by committee. It doesn't happen by osmosis. It happens by FOLLOWING THE DRUMMER (see, I can use all caps too!) It's not the bass player's job to lead the band.

It all about an equal musical partnership and LISTENING and not being blindly bound to any stupid rules. Personality plays a huge role and the time leadership can vary from band to band, from night to night, song to song even.

A band is NOT an "equal partnership"... The guitar is not equally responsible for keeping time. The drums are not equally responsible for melody. Bass guitar is a support instrument in an ensemble. The bass does NOT "establish the time." NEVER. The bass does not lead the band, in a rock/pop/ensemble. NEVER. (You're right about the importance of "LISTENING" though... listening to the drummer!) And if you don't think you absolutely need to follow (as you say) "stupid rules" to play music... wow. Just... wow.

Now, if you want to think that everybody in the band is equally tasked with "establishing time" or controlling the tempo, you go right ahead. I'll continue to keep grooving solidly in the pocket... THE POCKET OF THE DRUMMER. (Hey, all caps are fun!)

 

[Deacon_Blues]

K2000: I often take the leading role in the bands I'm in, show the tempo for the drummer and play in such a way the rest always (should) know what part is coming next. I guess partly it's because I sing lead a lot or at least backing vocals and therefore I'm careful about the tempo. It's just awful to sing in the wrong tempo. The other reason is I'm often the most experienced musician in the band. So... your statement that the bass NEVER leads the band is wrong. Sorry.

 

[TheRam]

I actually think you should stop practicing with a metronome. Practice solo and learn to play a steady beat by how it feels. Also, find a drummer to play with... you could even pay a good drummer to play with you... a little like you would a bass teacher. Also, listen to a lot of music. don't try to analyze it, just listen for feel and enjoyment.

+1

A metronome is for people who ALREADY know how to play with a reasonable internal sense of timing.

Play with your band and make sure you're drummer himself is in time because there is a possibility that he isn't. Its happened to me more than once so tape all your practices together and listen back later to see what the real problem is.

While I'm on that, here's some great advice. Always tape your own playing. Its the best way to improve. Its good to hear what other people hear. I've seen players that think they are in time on stage and later when watching the playback they discover that they are off. You'll really improve this way.

If you don't have a band that you can practice with, practice playing a song along with an original track. It will help big time! 1. You know everything is in time. 2. You are familiar with the song so you'll enjoy it more.

Once you have an understanding of how to play a song within reasonable time, then only use the metronome.

 

[JimmyM]

K2000, the dummers you hang out with have been filling your head with propaganda. EVERYONE is responsible for establishing time, not just the drummer. There are times where the drums take a leading role, times when the bass takes a leading role, times when the guitar does it, times when the keys do it, etc. Your way of doing it makes for some very timid basslines.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

A band is NOT an "equal partnership"...

You obviously have it all figured out and don't want to learn anything here. I can only hope young players reading this thread realize that you're totally full of **** and that being stuck as you are in a very rigid way of thinking you'll
A) never be a very good musician
B) never be able to sustain a long term career in music
and
C) even as an amateur an attitude like yours is very limiting and the better drummers will blow you off when they realize you want them to do all the work.

 

[DocBop]

K2000, the dummers you hang out with have been filling your head with propaganda. EVERYONE is responsible for establishing time, not just the drummer. There are times where the drums take a leading role, times when the bass takes a leading role, times when the guitar does it, times when the keys do it, etc. Your way of doing it makes for some very timid basslines.

+1

Great bands are great because they have good time and work together and their playing compliments each other. That why when some great bands split up the individuals on their own never sound as good.

Good time is something everyone in the band must have to lock in and make things happen. It is also the thing most young musicians are clueless about. They think starting and stopping at the same time is good time. Them move to okay bass and drums are together even though the song just rushed into the next county. Hopefully they mature to point that steady time is what it is about and controlled changed in tempo and returning. It's all about learning to listen, not to the riffs and power chords, but to the band as a whole.

 

[Nenor]

There is a confusion between taking a leading role and the responsibility of time.
No matter which instrument is leading at a given time, the responsebility of playing in time and creating a groove is equal on every player. "Time" does not belong to anyone and is not to be determine by anyone. It is JUST THERE! As a player, on whatever instrument, you should be able to feel the beat and create a musical part that will support that feeling. That and more, you should listen to your fellow players and synchronize your feel with their's.
The thing with the drums is that usually they are the loadest instrument and the drummer has the most difficalties to hear the others. For that sad reason everyone tend to follow whatever the drummer does. A monitor should solve this problem.