Sometimes the "beautiful" people really aren't so beautiful

[Etienned]

You keep saying "I" don't this or that.....stop thinking "I" and start thinking "we".

For someone advocating for free speech, you're pretty clear about what you want to read here. We disagree.

Canada has issues, serious ones, but our anti-hate speech laws is not the slippery slope you evoke.

 

[knumbskull]

Nor have I personally. It's a matter of principle though....when you allow censorship of any kind you leave the door wide open to its abuse. We humans need to grow up and that will never happen as long as we aren't free to make mistakes. Censorship inhibits your choice to make a mistake and thus to grow past making those mistakes.

so you support the right of someone to advocate killing people of a certain race?

what if someone was killed as a result of this information being broadcast - is that part of "growing up"?

 

[DwaynieAD]

so you support the right of someone to advocate killing people of a certain race?

what if someone was killed as a result of this information being broadcast - is that part of "growing up"?

he supports the right to free speech, not pseudo-free speech. quit trying to make him into a hate monger or bigot because you dont think all speech should be free. it is a slippery slope, start outlawing subjects, then words are being outlawed, then your neighbor is calling the cops on you because you called him stupid. not hard to see

 

[knumbskull]

he supports the right to free speech, not pseudo-free speech. quit trying to make him into a hate monger or bigot because you dont think all speech should be free. it is a slippery slope, start outlawing subjects, then words are being outlawed, then your neighbor is calling the cops on you because you called him stupid. not hard to see

i honestly don't agree that it's a slippery slope - we have laws against incitement to racial hatred in this country, and this works fine as a stand-alone issue. your imagined scenario with the Thought Police is just as an extreme example as mine!

i'm not trying to accuse the poster of bigotry - i was trying to make the point that it's not a straightforward, black-and-white issue.

 

[Diogenes]

Unfortunately very few things in life are simple black&white issues. I believe in freedom of speech just as I do in the freedom of choice but I have a hard time supporting someone's supposed right to voice hatred towards another just as I would their choice to do physical harm to someone.

It's been witnessed time and time again that words can be very powerful. They can be a weapon with as much potential for damage and pain as the sword or gun and therefore must be wielded carefully by responsible human beings.

 

[aborgman]

so you support the right of someone to advocate killing people of a certain race?

Yes.

what if someone was killed as a result of this information being broadcast - is that part of "growing up"?

Then the person who did the killing deserves to be punished accordingly.

Outside laws about inciting riots, martial law, or libel/slander - you should be able to say pretty much whatever you'd like without consequence from the government.

 

[knumbskull]

Yes.



Then the person who did the killing deserves to be punished accordingly.

Outside laws about inciting riots, martial law, or libel/slander - you should be able to say pretty much whatever you'd like without consequence from the government.

ah - so aborman you believe some things ARE ok to be censored? In which case it's just a matter of opinion where the line is drawn. The anti rioting thing would seem to be for the govt's protection, while baning hate-preaching seems more to protect the people, IMO.

also, in the hypothetical case we're discussing, i would much prefer to have harm prevented, rather than done and punished.

 

[aborgman]

ah - so aborman you believe some things ARE ok to be censored?

By the government? No.

I believe it is sometimes ok to punish people for their speech, but never right to prevent it.

Want to scream "Fire" in a crowded movie theater? It's your right to do so. If there isn't a fire, then you should be punished for the effects of your actions.

In which case it's just a matter of opinion where the line is drawn.

Not a matter of "where", but of "when"... the line is drawn at "prior restraint".

The anti rioting thing would seem to be for the govt's protection, while baning hate-preaching seems more to protect the people, IMO.

Note: Banning inciting a riot is not equal to banning speech advocating rioting. There is a distinct and important difference.

also, in the hypothetical case we're discussing, i would much prefer to have harm prevented, rather than done and punished.

I wouldn't - because it curtails rights to prevent potential harm.

 

[Eric Perry]

MEIN KOMP!

LOL!

 

[MIJ-VI]

1) You're ignoring that when you have laws that curtail freedom of speech based on certain parameters you leave the door open to the definition of those parameters becoming incrementally ever broader. 2) You keep saying "I" don't this or that.....stop thinking "I" and start thinking "we".

1) I'm not ignoring anything relevant to this issue. You're ignoring this:

Canada
Main article: Hate speech laws in Canada

In Canada, advocating genocide or inciting hatred[10] against any 'identifiable group' is an indictable offence under the Criminal Code of Canada with maximum prison terms of two to fourteen years. An 'identifiable group' is defined as 'any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.' It makes exceptions for cases of statements of truth, and subjects of public debate and religious doctrine. The landmark judicial decision on the constitutionality of this law was R. v. Keegstra (1990)

I've lived in Canada all my life and not once have I ever felt that my free speech was imperilled by the State.

Nor have I personally. It's a matter of principle though....when you allow censorship of any kind you leave the door wide open to its abuse. We humans need to grow up and that will never happen as long as we aren't free to make mistakes. Censorship inhibits your choice to make a mistake and thus to grow past making those mistakes.

View Profile: jeff arddun
Age:
49

You're also ignoring the history of moderate administrations delivered via the checks & balances of Canada's system of parliamentary democracy which is further underpinned by a free press, and in more recent times, the Internet as well.

2) Based upon my experiences & observations "I" don't believe that responsible free speech is under threat in Canada. (BTW. Please stop telling me how to think.)

That being said I'm open to examining any specific examples of an incremental loss of free speech in Canada which affects those who are not purveyors of hate.

If there are any confirmed threats afoot then "we" should know about them.

Thank you.

 

[groooooove]

I read this somewhere, "In France, Nazi sympathising/apologism is ILLEGAL."

i know in germany its very illegal. wouldn't surprise me if it is in other parts of europe too.

 

[anonymous122511]

1) I'm not ignoring anything relevant to this issue.

You're ignoring the fact you are willing to treat someone else in a manner you would not tolerate for a moment if it were forced on you. If you expect to receive complete tolerance to speak you have to be willing to give complete tolerance to speak however distasteful it might seem. It is the lesser evil.

I've been involved in these kinds of off topic discussions since Carol Kaye was hanging out at alt.guitar.bass and I know a brick wall when I hit it.
Here's the crux: I don't believe in censorship and you do. Neither of seems likely bend so anything further will be pointless banter.
Agreed?

 

[MIJ-VI]

You're ignoring the fact you are willing to treat someone else in a manner you would not tolerate for a moment if it were forced on you. If you expect to receive complete tolerance to speak you have to be willing to give complete tolerance to speak however distasteful it might seem. It is the lesser evil.

I've been involved in these kinds of off topic discussions since Carol Kaye was hanging out at alt.guitar.bass and I know a brick wall when I hit it.
Here's the crux: I don't believe in censorship and you do. Neither of seems likely bend so anything further will be pointless banter.
Agreed?

Almost. I believe in Canada's current hate speech laws.

 

[MIJ-VI]

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[anonymous122511]

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Forgiveness is one of the most beautiful things money can buy.....

 

[MIJ-VI]

Forgiveness is one of the most beautiful things money can buy.....

*splutters his coffee* Wh'hat! We agree upon something?!

 

[anonymous122511]

*splutters his coffee* Wh'hat! We agree upon something?!

Yep.
Sorry about the coffee.....