Song List for the New Band!

[turf3]

I don't know about Boston vs DFW sight reading, though with Berkley in Boston, I'd be surprised.

I haven't site-read anything since I was a kid in piano lessons, nor is it a skill required of most working guitarists or bassists. The once or twice I was given standard notation, it was take-home-and-learn. The ability to "site read" read basic chord charts and Nashville numbers is in much higher demand among these instruments. Even keyboard players are using chord charts - that's what's most readily available from BL's and easiest to pull up on apps like iReal Pro.

Not to say site reading is not a required skill by some - To your point, horn player charts are almost exclusively in standard notation - it's just not so much with other instruments in the local bar and function band scene.

My post wasn't meant to be a humble brag, BTW, it was just to say that "playing both intro parts" of the song in question would only require average guitar skills.

Sight reading was just an example. What I'm saying is that your "average" guitar skills might stand out in other parts of the country.

The Berklee influence in the Boston area is strange - and I didn't live there long enough to really get a handle on it. But it's different than the NTSU influence on North Texas. Here (North Texas) there are SO MANY red hot players coming out of NT, that the general standard of playing even for exceedingly amateur groups is high. Up there (Boston area) it isn't that way. I have a sense, but it's just a sense, that the Berklee crowd is kind of a closed system, where they all hire each other and no one else gets in. But here, where every other band director went to NT and made it at least to the Three O'Clock, the NT alumni and their influence seem to have spread over the whole music scene.

But that's just my impression, and I can only speak to where I've played music - mostly the society band, big band type environment, with a few rock and roll horn-band gigs here and there. It's been a very long time since I was in a traditional small rock and roll bar band.

The other thing to remember about Berklee is that it is totally a profit-making enterprise. They're perfectly happy to take your money for multiple years and then you never actually get any kind of degree, but for the rest of your life you tell people "When I was at Berklee". It's just like how every single person who ever took an extension class from Harvard feels it necessary to preface every fourth sentence with "when I was at Harvard". I grant you there are plenty of mediocre players who barely managed to graduate, last in their class, from NT, too. But I don't feel Berklee being there has had the elevating influence on performance expectations that NT has had.

I'm sure other people willl have had very different experiences and impressions.

 

[turf3]

...

OTOH, something about playing Stones covers seriously doesn't jive with "plotting a course" in my world either.
...

They wrote some good songs, but it took a MANE to really show those boys how it should be done:



vs



or



vs

 

[51PRI]

They wrote some good songs, but it took a MANE to really show those boys how it should be done:



vs



or



vs

The Stones didn't write "I Just Want to Make Love to You", Willie Dixon did and Muddy Waters recorded it in 1954. The Stones version was a cover and the version on "Electric Mud" was Muddy Waters "updated" with current hot rock (fuzz) guitar sounds. Not highly thought of at the time, "Electric Mud" ended up being a template for bands like The Northern Mississippi All-Stars, The White Stripes and The Black Keys, among others.

 

[J Wilson]

Well, at least they skipped '3 Steps', 'Old Time Rock and Roll', and 'Hands to Yourself' . . . . . . .

 

[51PRI]

Well, at least they skipped '3 Steps', 'Old Time Rock and Roll', and 'Hands to Yourself' . . . . . . .

Oh, those have been discussed. I've tried to calm them down on as many of the old chestnuts as I can.

 

[pepj]

I got asked to check out Dead Flowers...along with 11ty8 hundred other tracks for last weeks party. I could have busked most anyway..even though the titles weren't familiar...didn't do the half of them on the day.

I'd be very unhappy with that set unless...unless the party organiser asked for a few of those.
They would likely be friends/fans so we couldn't even go top dollar on them..

But yep, I'd sooner leave them alone.

And, have to say, if I was starting a new band, I wouldn't be selling the band with those songs.
So maybe, I'm not the one to ask..but its a large veto from me.

To the OP..how much thought went into those suggestions. Are people just throwing songs in to get a set and gigs up and running?
That may be one reason but I don't see that doing you any favours booking-wise because bookers will be thinking they can get any band to do them already so why book you guys?

 

[J Wilson]

At least, all I'd need is what key each is in and skip rehearsing them. Who doesn't know all those by now? Just show up and blow.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Sight reading was just an example. What I'm saying is that your "average" guitar skills might stand out in other parts of the country.

The Berklee influence in the Boston area is strange - and I didn't live there long enough to really get a handle on it. But it's different than the NTSU influence on North Texas. Here (North Texas) there are SO MANY red hot players coming out of NT, that the general standard of playing even for exceedingly amateur groups is high. Up there (Boston area) it isn't that way. I have a sense, but it's just a sense, that the Berklee crowd is kind of a closed system, where they all hire each other and no one else gets in. But here, where every other band director went to NT and made it at least to the Three O'Clock, the NT alumni and their influence seem to have spread over the whole music scene.

True that. I did a sub gig a few months ago where the horn section was made up of band directors from different high schools - 2 out of 5 were NT alum.

Even in my little circle of guitar players, there're NT guys sprinkled through. I was not one, but was influenced heavily by a few who were while we were all that age.

But that's just my impression, and I can only speak to where I've played music - mostly the society band, big band type environment, with a few rock and roll horn-band gigs here and there. It's been a very long time since I was in a traditional small rock and roll bar band.

The other thing to remember about Berklee is that it is totally a profit-making enterprise. They're perfectly happy to take your money for multiple years and then you never actually get any kind of degree, but for the rest of your life you tell people "When I was at Berklee". It's just like how every single person who ever took an extension class from Harvard feels it necessary to preface every fourth sentence with "when I was at Harvard". I grant you there are plenty of mediocre players who barely managed to graduate, last in their class, from NT, too. But I don't feel Berklee being there has had the elevating influence on performance expectations that NT has had.

I'm sure other people willl have had very different experiences and impressions.

Again, I just don't know anything about Berkley other than its reputation as one of the best music colleges in the nation.

Ironically, one of the main architects for the guitar programs at both Berkley and NTSU was Jack Peterson.

I suspect another big influence on NTSU guitarists during my generation was the hotbed of local great players that student guitarists were influenced by before even registering. Players like Bugs Henderson, Freddie King and Rocky Athas.

 

[turf3]

... there're NT guys sprinkled through. I was not one, but was influenced heavily by a few who were while we were all that age.
...

I think everyone who was a young musician in the North Texas area was influenced by the teaching at NTSU during its heyday in the 70s and 80s; either second or third hand by teachers, or just by the way the "NTSU way" permeated music here. Certainly saxophone playing in the DFW area was (and I suppose still is) heavily influenced by the Jim Riggs "high, bright, LOUD, fast, LOUD" style of playing. When I got to Boston the first thing I noticed was how subdued (might I even say, Puritan-sounding) everyone played. There was an almost complete absence of any kind of Texas Tenor feeling. Whereas NT guys always had a tendency to "chew the scenery". I can't but imagine that other instruments went the same way. Certainly lead trumpet playing out of NT has a definite style.

 

[turf3]

The Stones didn't write "I Just Want to Make Love to You", Willie Dixon did and Muddy Waters recorded it in 1954. The Stones version was a cover and the version on "Electric Mud" was Muddy Waters "updated" with current hot rock (fuzz) guitar sounds. Not highly thought of at the time, "Electric Mud" ended up being a template for bands like The Northern Mississippi All-Stars, The White Stripes and The Black Keys, among others.

Yeah, I was first talking about "Let's Spend the Night Together" and then I decided to add "I Just Want to" to it.

But in "Electric Mud" the essential Muddy-Waters-ness of his performance comes through. And blows the Stones' performances of those songs clean out of the water. IIt's kind of like when Ray Charles covered "Yesterday" - when he sings "I'm not half the man I used to be" you actually get the sense of a man of the world who's looking back with regrets - by contrast McCartney sounded like a choir boy. Kind of like sending a 7 year old to their first confession. What kind of sins can a 7 year old even get up to? Now a 45 year old - that's a different story.

I know Muddy himself was reported to hate Electric Mud and it has been treated badly through the years and still I think it's a great rock and roll and blues record.

 

[51PRI]

Yeah, I was first talking about "Let's Spend the Night Together" and then I decided to add "I Just Want to" to it.

But in "Electric Mud" the essential Muddy-Waters-ness of his performance comes through. And blows the Stones' performances of those songs clean out of the water. IIt's kind of like when Ray Charles covered "Yesterday" - when he sings "I'm not half the man I used to be" you actually get the sense of a man of the world who's looking back with regrets - by contrast McCartney sounded like a choir boy. Kind of like sending a 7 year old to their first confession. What kind of sins can a 7 year old even get up to? Now a 45 year old - that's a different story.

I know Muddy himself was reported to hate Electric Mud and it has been treated badly through the years and still I think it's a great rock and roll and blues record.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree about "Yesterday."

And, IMO, the original Muddy Waters' recording of "I Just Wanna Make Love to You", and even the Foghat version, to be honest, are superior to the "Electric Mud" version. "Electric Mud" was severely panned at the time of its release by blues purists as a lame attempt by the record company to update Muddy for newer audiences, and has only gained a small amount of respect in recent years.

I have the LP and it's interesting for what it is but I would never play it for someone as an example of a great blues record.

YMMV

 

[Guitalia]

The Stones didn't write "I Just Want to Make Love to You", Willie Dixon did and Muddy Waters recorded it in 1954. The Stones version was a cover and the version on "Electric Mud" was Muddy Waters "updated" with current hot rock (fuzz) guitar sounds. Not highly thought of at the time, "Electric Mud" ended up being a template for bands like The Northern Mississippi All-Stars, The White Stripes and The Black Keys, among others.

Tt was definitely the template for lead players moronically soloing nonstop over singers.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I think everyone who was a young musician in the North Texas area was influenced by the teaching at NTSU during its heyday in the 70s and 80s; either second or third hand by teachers, or just by the way the "NTSU way" permeated music here. Certainly saxophone playing in the DFW area was (and I suppose still is) heavily influenced by the Jim Riggs "high, bright, LOUD, fast, LOUD" style of playing. When I got to Boston the first thing I noticed was how subdued (might I even say, Puritan-sounding) everyone played. There was an almost complete absence of any kind of Texas Tenor feeling. Whereas NT guys always had a tendency to "chew the scenery". I can't but imagine that other instruments went the same way. Certainly lead trumpet playing out of NT has a definite style.

Speaking of, need one of them LOUD, fast LOUD sax players for a couple sub dates this weekend in the McKinney area. PM me if you know someone who'll prepare, thanks.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I agree mostly but IMO 4 Tom Petty songs are not too many. Everyone likes Tom Petty and they always go over well. You could even play like 2 or 3 in a row with no problem.

Some of the non-tribute bands I work with have preferences: 4-6 songs by a particular artist, sometimes that many each by a couple/few artists. It's never a problem with bigger artist(s) who have that many major hits: Petty, Beatles, Stones, Cars, Fleetwood Mac (to name a few classic rock examples).

These bands typically play no more than two in a row ("double shot"), but an interesting exception is the newest band I joined that does clever medleys of 3-5 songs each by Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Who. Each is composed of song segments and essentially 2-3 songs long... so, no audience overload.

 

[Fuzzbass]

To the OP..how much thought went into those suggestions. Are people just throwing songs in to get a set and gigs up and running?
That may be one reason but I don't see that doing you any favours booking-wise because bookers will be thinking they can get any band to do them already so why book you guys?

Things must be different in your area. In my area, bands who avoid hits in favor of deep cuts have a hard time getting gigs. Even bands that try to avoid tunes like Brown Eyed Girl, Mustang Sally, Hands to Yourself, Skynyrd often include Brick House, Funky Music, Jenny Jenny and others because they pack the dance floor and will probably be requested if not played.

I mainly work bar gigs. 80's bands have been the rage in larger showcase venues, and they all essentially play the same setlist: "Don't Stop Believing", "Sweet Child of Mine", "Rio", "Jessie's Girl", etc. Venues and booking agencies expect these tunes because audiences want 'em.

There are exceptions, but bands of top local musicians who play deep cuts and/or higher-level stuff like Steely Dan are usually relegated to smaller bars that cater to sophisticated audiences.

 

[J Wilson]

WAIT A MINUTE! ! !

Where's Free Bird???

 

[51PRI]

WAIT A MINUTE! ! !

Where's Free Bird???

That is one of those old chestnut songs that I actually have never played in a serious band. To play it right you need three guitarists and keys as well as a good tight rhythm section.

 

[J Wilson]

That is one of those old chestnut songs that I actually have never played in a serious band. To play it right you need three guitarists and keys as well as a good tight rhythm section.

Maybe not . . .

I was in a successful club band in Jacksonville in the late 80's with two guitarists (one of which was some relation to the late Berry Oakley). Of course, Skynyrd was from Jax, and in those days were on somewhat of a hiatus, but you just had to work their catalog as well as .38, the Allmans, etc. to work steady around there.

And of course, the guitar player who did the slide work used a spark plug socket for his slide. We show up one night, he's pouting like crazy and saying he's NOT playing tonight, some SOB stole his spark plug socket. What are we doing here? I had to jump in the car, run up the street to an auto parts store that was still open, buy him another socket, and beat it back, running through the door at 8:55. He starts to say that one really wasn't like his, wah, wah, wah . . . . I told him I also bought a tire iron while I was down there . . . . 'well, it's close enough . . . . ', we counted off the first song and we were in. Nuts !

We'd close the night with a letter-perfect 'Free Bird' (we had a great keyboard player as well), and roll through all 7 or 8 minutes of it.

The crazy thing was when the keyboard player would kick it off, a lot of times, the whole crowd would stand up with their Bics. Geez Louise, they were serious about that stuff !

 

[pepj]

That is one of those old chestnut songs that I actually have never played in a serious band. To play it right you need three guitarists and keys as well as a good tight rhythm section.

Its a jam hack track. Sure, its to be avoided but if you are unlucky and it gets called...
2 things, imv.
What they heck are you doing in that unit. No one cares how its plays.

And if you need all the original elements to carry it off... then up the game.

 

[51PRI]

New band now has 2 bookings. One is at a regular bar and we should be fine. The other is at a biker bar...that should be interesting!