Sonicsmith Pitch Tacking Analog Synths (Converter and Squaver P1)

[OhulahanBass]

That was some of the fixing they did, added a low pass filter to the input. Originally this was fixed, but they likely used an output on the chip to help pitch control the lowpass as a fixed ratio the the played note, not the pot.

Experienced player \ programmer or not, the tracking warbles when the note is sustained using a stringed instrument. Lots of pedals can track a sustained note with little pitch influence or instability.

String pitch to CV is something that would be fun, but the more I heard these demos, the more I realized that a bass is a bass, and it should stay that way as far as expectations go. With the right equipment you can make some new sounds, but it will never be a synth because it doesn't play like a synth. There are many subtleties that each instrument have that can't be translated.

Unless you get one of those Industrial Basses that build a midi controller into the bass neck. I hear you though, the FI is damn close but more of a live instrument for me, I never choose the FI over a Moog, Roland or even several of my VST when putting together a track.

That said, if the Converter + proves to be the bizz or is sold with satisfaction garentee I may give it a shot. $500 for a pitch to CV converter is really high. Controlling a Moog with a fretless bass for pitch gliding madness seems like a cool idea. Patching a solid saw wave to any of my envelope followers sounds juicy too. Lots of fun to be had if they can figure out what no one else has.

 

[Zeflyingcat]

Hi everyone !
I just released a demo of the ConVertor + on bass! -

I have been through a lot of pedal and set up to get "a synth sound" if that actually means anything.
- Disclaimer, I'm now endorsing Sonicsmith but this doesn't or shouldn't bias my opinion. I use a lot of other products and some work better for different applications. I also had no problem pointing them what was wrong and hardly-usable on their first version. So hopefully my post isn't a commercial rant!

As you mainly talk about the Future Impact : I have one, and it's certainly a great pedal, but I can't say the tracking is perfect... I'm having a hard time making this thing track octaves or fifth flawlessly, and there is a little "glitch" a the beginning of each note. The pitch of the last note stay stucked before switching to the note played. Soundwise, its not so much a problem when going to a higher note, but the other way around (from higher to lower note) really bugs me as you hear more of the "stucked pitch"...
To test it, I tried to play the highest note on my bass VI, wait a moment and play a note like 2 octaves lower. I can hear the high note on the attack of the second note...

The sound is subjective, I like it but the FI isn't my favorite synth by far, and it isn't really "characterful". Well, that's another topic, maybe I should post on a dedicated forum (and post audio as well).

Back to the ConVertor + , this thing track flawlessly... I was greatly impressed when I first tried it.
For the story, when I started to check Sonicsmith's product, it was their first version. While the tracking was already top notch, there were some troubles with the gating and other aspects that made the device almost unusable live. After a few emails, I tried their new + version, and I'm blown away by the "audio to CV" conversion. I had no problem controlling external synths and modular devices. (Now, a new category for the G.A.S. ...)

Sound-wise, the ConVertor + is pretty raw. Single oscillator with swichable filter. But it's a good oscillator, and an analog one for that matter. I like to compare it to the EQD Bit Commander, but with more options (such as, dynamics) and sounds (Saw/Sqr). I yet have to take a look at their Squaver P1, this looks promising.

Anyway, check it out, tell me what you think, feel free to ask me any questions if you want - I realize that this device is not widely showcased and known, so if there is anything I can provide to help other to make a decision that is right for their set up, I'm all for it ! Been through this, and I got more help than hoped from this forum!

Cheers,
Maxime

 

[OhulahanBass]

@Zflyingcat

That was a great demo! For sure some promise for this unit. Love the bread and butter funk tones.

I will have to disagree with your FI assessment, IME you got to start editing that beasts attack, glide and detune if you want glitch free characterful bass tones. Th bummer is you do have to change your playing style around the pedal in a way that is less fun for me.

That said, if the Converter+ can track solid with a gated VCA attach setting that may be a step above the superb FI tracking. Is that your experience, no tracking glitch with gated VCA? That may be worth the price tag.

 

[nshuman]

Hi everyone !
I just released a demo of the ConVertor + on bass! -

I have been through a lot of pedal and set up to get "a synth sound" if that actually means anything.
- Disclaimer, I'm now endorsing Sonicsmith but this doesn't or shouldn't bias my opinion. I use a lot of other products and some work better for different applications. I also had no problem pointing them what was wrong and hardly-usable on their first version. So hopefully my post isn't a commercial rant!

As you mainly talk about the Future Impact : I have one, and it's certainly a great pedal, but I can't say the tracking is perfect... I'm having a hard time making this thing track octaves or fifth flawlessly, and there is a little "glitch" a the beginning of each note. The pitch of the last note stay stucked before switching to the note played. Soundwise, its not so much a problem when going to a higher note, but the other way around (from higher to lower note) really bugs me as you hear more of the "stucked pitch"...
To test it, I tried to play the highest note on my bass VI, wait a moment and play a note like 2 octaves lower. I can hear the high note on the attack of the second note...

The sound is subjective, I like it but the FI isn't my favorite synth by far, and it isn't really "characterful". Well, that's another topic, maybe I should post on a dedicated forum (and post audio as well).

Back to the ConVertor + , this thing track flawlessly... I was greatly impressed when I first tried it.
For the story, when I started to check Sonicsmith's product, it was their first version. While the tracking was already top notch, there were some troubles with the gating and other aspects that made the device almost unusable live. After a few emails, I tried their new + version, and I'm blown away by the "audio to CV" conversion. I had no problem controlling external synths and modular devices. (Now, a new category for the G.A.S. ...)

Sound-wise, the ConVertor + is pretty raw. Single oscillator with swichable filter. But it's a good oscillator, and an analog one for that matter. I like to compare it to the EQD Bit Commander, but with more options (such as, dynamics) and sounds (Saw/Sqr). I yet have to take a look at their Squaver P1, this looks promising.

Anyway, check it out, tell me what you think, feel free to ask me any questions if you want - I realize that this device is not widely showcased and known, so if there is anything I can provide to help other to make a decision that is right for their set up, I'm all for it ! Been through this, and I got more help than hoped from this forum!

Cheers,
Maxime

I'd really like to see a video with actual bass playing to gauge tracking and latency. The last video on Facebook showed audio that was off sync by like 1-2 seconds. It's hard to gauge what is really happening when the demos are like that.

 

[OhulahanBass]

I'd really like to see a video with actual bass playing to gauge tracking and latency. The last video on Facebook showed audio that was off sync by like 1-2 seconds. It's hard to gauge what is really happening when the demos are like that.

Hmm, I don't think that demo would have sounded so good if recorded at 1s latency, you must be a magic if you funk with those specs. I think it is more likely the video you saw had the audio aligned poorly.

1s latency is like having your speakers over 1000ft away. Did you mean 1-2ms, cuz that would be damn good latency?

 

[Jonny5bass]

Hmm, I don't think that demo would have sounded so good if recorded at 1s latency, you must be a magic if you funk with those specs. I think it is more likely the video you saw had the audio aligned poorly.

1s latency is like having your speakers over 1000ft away. Did you mean 1-2ms, cuz that would be damn good latency?

No, the audio and video were clearly out of sync by at least a second or two.

 

[Adamixoye]

No, the audio and video were clearly out of sync by at least a second or two.

I think Ohulahan's point is that you can still judge latency by the overall playing and "groove" even if the video and audio are out of sync. I'm not 100% sure I agree but I understand the argument.

 

[OhulahanBass]

I think Ohulahan's point is that you can still judge latency by the overall playing and "groove" even if the video and audio are out of sync. I'm not 100% sure I agree but I understand the argument.

My point was 1-2s latency is crazy high, no way a product would be release for $500 in 2018 or even 1980s with that latency. Budget audio interfaces for less than $100 can get below 20ms. And isn't this thing all analog (i.e. much faster)? It must have been a video-audio alignment issue or perhaps a really late attach setting.

I wouldn't read too much into the timing in that video if the tracking was off by that much. That just wouldn't make sense.

I'll check it out if you post a link.

 

[Adamixoye]

My point was 1-2s latency is crazy high, no way a product would be release for $500 in 2018 or even 1980s with that latency. Budget audio interfaces for less than $100 can get below 20ms. And isn't this thing all analog (i.e. much faster)? It must have been a video-audio alignment issue or perhaps a really late attach setting.

I wouldn't read too much into the timing in that video if the tracking was off by that much. That just wouldn't make sense.

I'll check it out if you post a link.

Well then, conversely no one was claiming that the actual latency was 1-2s, rather that the video and audio off by 1-2s (regardless of the reason) and you couldn't judge latency because of that.

 

[OhulahanBass]

Ah, k, im on the same page now, sorry.

Well then, conversely no one was claiming that the actual latency was 1-2s, rather that the video and audio off by 1-2s (regardless of the reason) and you couldn't judge latency because of that.

 

[nshuman]

Well then, conversely no one was claiming that the actual latency was 1-2s, rather that the video and audio off by 1-2s (regardless of the reason) and you couldn't judge latency because of that.

Yes, that was my point. It's hard to gauge when the glitching happens, when the tracking is good, when it is less good, etc. This is especially so when an LFO is being used. And, on a 500-750$ product hat will be made or broken based pretty much solely on tracking, it's hard to take the plunge without having a demo that at least tries to show this.

 

[Alien8]

I generally expect some technique modifications to play synth lines through an effect designed to translate my actual bass signal into electronic control. In general, how easy this is when applied to the pedal relates to the success of the pedal. FI being a baseline is decent, and yes seems to be somewhat settings dependant - which makes sense when you consider what it is doing.

Having a visual reference is also not the sole indicator of latency, but works in conjunction with audio. Watching hands play a bass line and hearing a pedal operate tell the whole story. Most SonicSmith demos that show a stringed instrument show realistic latency. Hearing a recorded track doesn't always do it justice because of post processing.

All of this to say that this recent demo has shown that the sounds produced by a bass being the source are better.

I hear glissando on some notes and not on others, so I'm wondering where that is coming from - ie an external lag processor, or an internal behaviour.

The glitching and tracking is improved, and we can only assume what the set up was to create this sound, and no post processing use to gate the notes.

I also wonder where on the neck the lines are played, because there is a point in the video where the octave is being demonstrated, and a change in the knob produces the same notes - this tells me there is a shift on the fretboard that we cannot see.

The connections to the external synth show some promise. Again, what is the true setup here? Direct cables? Attenuators used?


Again, since this product was release as a development stage the first time, the audience is far more critical, so demonstrating these fine details is critical to getting people to not think twice before buying. I for one at this point am glad my wife got a new sewing machine that she adores instead of me getting a not fully developed product.

 

[ChubbyJerk]

Yeah. There's a big difference between a review done by an end user where we see the whole signal chain, we see their bass, we see their fingers playing, etc...and an obviously-produced-by-the-company demo done by an endorser, which is edited post recording, etc.

This is a cool marketing video, but it's clearly designed to sell the product rather than show us how well it actually functions.

This needs to be in the hands of a respected reviewer before many people will even consider buying one at this point.

 

[OhulahanBass]

Yes, that was my point. It's hard to gauge when the glitching happens, when the tracking is good, when it is less good, etc. This is especially so when an LFO is being used. And, on a 500-750$ product hat will be made or broken based pretty much solely on tracking, it's hard to take the plunge without having a demo that at least tries to show this.

Got it, this is why I wish there was a risk-free 30day return policy. Better to feel it out for yourself as it's hard to trust or gauge video. If the groove is to a beat or the review is by a once skeptic that can be more informative.

All that said, this latest demo is promising!

 

[Zeflyingcat]

Yeah. There's a big difference between a review done by an end user where we see the whole signal chain, we see their bass, we see their fingers playing, etc...and an obviously-produced-by-the-company demo done by an endorser, which is edited post recording, etc.

This is a cool marketing video, but it's clearly designed to sell the product rather than show us how well it actually functions.

This needs to be in the hands of a respected reviewer before many people will even consider buying one at this point.

Hey everyone,

Well, it's pleasing to see there is some interest in this technology, and that my video raised new questions and expectations!

And I'm glad you think it is a "obviously-produced-by-the-company" video , as it is the first demo I did, and a video that "the company" hasn't seen until released! If you think that it "sells the product", I take this as a compliment for the quality of the video
Regarding the "respected reviewers" doing their jobs, I would be happy to see what other people do with this device, both as an effect and as a review, as I'm always grateful to learn new things to improve.

For those wondering, the audio path was : Bass VI -> Convertor + -> Audio interface -> Logic X with no post processing - except on the Kraftwerk song (last one, reverb on the leads). I already programmed the drum-parts I play with, so it might be a good indication for the timing. The LFO stuff as well, as I don't know how I could have been playing in sync with an LFO if the tracking suffered noticeable latency.
And it is certainly a DIY video, Sonicsmith in no way took part in the process. Once again, I reiterate my will to be honest with what I showcase, and I wouldn't ever endorse something I wouldn't use professionally.

Seeing you guys interest, I might try to do a more conventional video, where you could see me play so the latency is "visually mesurable". Gotta find my camera first, as I think we all had enough of "phone recorded demo" ! Will try to do tomorrow, and if not - as soon as possible!

Is there anything in particular that you would be interested in seeing? (I'm thinking, maybe using a more "traditional bass" could be helpful - eventho I use my Bass VI as my main bass)

P.S. @OhulahanBass , I will try my FI again to see if I can get it to work flawlessly with my playing. I'm used to play with octavers, synths and monophonic pitch tracking devices - but I guess each pedal has its own way ! (BTW, if you think of any advice to help with the "higher note stucked" glitch, or octave tracking, I would like to check it out !)

Thanks
Maxime

 

[ChubbyJerk]

Hey everyone,

Well, it's pleasing to see there is some interest in this technology, and that my video raised new questions and expectations!

And I'm glad you think it is a "obviously-produced-by-the-company" video , as it is the first demo I did, and a video that "the company" hasn't seen until released! If you think that it "sells the product", I take this as a compliment for the quality of the video
Regarding the "respected reviewers" doing their jobs, I would be happy to see what other people do with this device, both as an effect and as a review, as I'm always grateful to learn new things to improve.

For those wondering, the audio path was : Bass VI -> Convertor + -> Audio interface -> Logic X with no post processing - except on the Kraftwerk song (last one, reverb on the leads). I already programmed the drum-parts I play with, so it might be a good indication for the timing. The LFO stuff as well, as I don't know how I could have been playing in sync with an LFO if the tracking suffered noticeable latency.
And it is certainly a DIY video, Sonicsmith in no way took part in the process. Once again, I reiterate my will to be honest with what I showcase, and I wouldn't ever endorse something I wouldn't use professionally.

Seeing you guys interest, I might try to do a more conventional video, where you could see me play so the latency is "visually mesurable". Gotta find my camera first, as I think we all had enough of "phone recorded demo" ! Will try to do tomorrow, and if not - as soon as possible!

Is there anything in particular that you would be interested in seeing? (I'm thinking, maybe using a more "traditional bass" could be helpful - eventho I use my Bass VI as my main bass)

P.S. @OhulahanBass , I will try my FI again to see if I can get it to work flawlessly with my playing. I'm used to play with octavers, synths and monophonic pitch tracking devices - but I guess each pedal has its own way ! (BTW, if you think of any advice to help with the "higher note stucked" glitch, or octave tracking, I would like to check it out !)

Thanks
Maxime

It's a very well done video. You should be proud of that. The criticism - if you want to take it as such - is about the content and tone; it's a problem with what it does and doesn't show, what it does and doesn't say; it's a question of intent.

Zero criticisms of the pedal. No downside. Nothing you didn't like. No caveats. No video of you playing. No video of the signal chain. We don't see parameters being tweaked live.

Add in things like comparisons (in the post, not video) to one of the local favorites for similar pedals where you paint the other pedal in a fairly critical light. Add in some superlative phrases like "flawless" tracking. And so on.

What you end up with is great marketing, but a poor demo.

I am in no way suggesting you're lying, but you come across as very biased. That's fine, understandable, no big deal. However, given what we've seen so far, I'll wait for a real review from a non-partisan, established party.

 

[Alien8]

Thanks for sharing your audio path, what was your CV path?

As far as demoing:

I certainly want to hear the bass mixed with the Convertor ACO output.

Knowing the bass setup is key - ie which bass, strings, tone knob settings, pick \ finger.

Hearing the Convertor do the things that the FI can't, or other octavers. Like tracking low notes (analog octavers) or playing octaves and fifths.

Knowing where on the neck you are playing, ideally visually.

I'm not too concerned about latency, except on the lowest notes.

Hearing how the Convertor glitches out, and knowing what causes it.

How does it sound with a compressor before it? I notice the volume envelope can be peaky, does a comp smooth it out?

What do sustained notes sound like in decay?

 

[OhulahanBass]

P.S. @OhulahanBass , I will try my FI again to see if I can get it to work flawlessly with my playing. I'm used to play with octavers, synths and monophonic pitch tracking devices - but I guess each pedal has its own way ! (BTW, if you think of any advice to help with the "higher note stucked" glitch, or octave tracking, I would like to check it out !)

Thanks
Maxime

First, I want to thank you for making the first promising bass demo sonic smith. Up until now the trackin and tone in Sonicsmith bass demos were...not great.


About the FI:

I think the FI patch sharing thread is the best place to go for advice. I had great tracking luck setting my VCA attack above 3, and getting rid or minimizing portamento. That plus adjustments to my playing made the FI track better than any other synth pedal, (not perfect though). This is off memory as I don't own it anymore. It was great fun, but I don't play bass live anymore and have ALLOT of conventional synths that fit better in my production, and GAS is a real problem for gear retention in my house.

As for character, you have TONS on tap with FI, detune the OSCs for Minimoog big booty vibe, use a square wave octave below a saw for Juno, ramp up the gain on each OSC for unique fold over distortion per OSC.... The FI has 4 oscs with multiple detune options per oscillator which is very unique. Use these and you'll find character. there is allot on tap, and it will always have a bit of FI vibe to it. I never used the harmonizer or effects except for the EQ or with some of the factory presets I liked. As with many digital synths, lil analog overdrive after can smudge it up just right.

Converter+:

I too would like to see where you are playing on the neck. I maybe in the minority, but I would also like to see the Converter+ controlling more external synth. Maybe sending the Converter audio through a filter of an external synth to add to the OSC mix. Most of all, I would like to know what makes it glitch and how your playing style must change to minimize the glitches. Many/All of the other demos suffered from glitches and less than great tone. It will take some convincing to get this thread to trust the new version.

 

[Zeflyingcat]

It's a very well done video. You should be proud of that. The criticism - if you want to take it as such - is about the content and tone; it's a problem with what it does and doesn't show, what it does and doesn't say; it's a question of intent.

Zero criticisms of the pedal. No downside. Nothing you didn't like. No caveats. No video of you playing. No video of the signal chain. We don't see parameters being tweaked live.

Add in things like comparisons (in the post, not video) to one of the local favorites for similar pedals where you paint the other pedal in a fairly critical light. Add in some superlative phrases like "flawless" tracking. And so on.

What you end up with is great marketing, but a poor demo.

I am in no way suggesting you're lying, but you come across as very biased. That's fine, understandable, no big deal. However, given what we've seen so far, I'll wait for a real review from a non-partisan, established party.

Oh, I see why I might have sounded like this! I'm sorry it came out that way, I'll try to quickly explain a possible reason..

About the video, I wanted to do a demo of the ConVertor, not a review in a technical sens. Looking at other channels, I thought "seeing the musician" wasn't that important, and I wanted to make a fun video.

Regarding the comparaison with the FI, I should have been clearer in what I was saying. I was only comparing the tracking of the two devices. I wasn't trying to say that "the FI isn't as good a pedal as the ConVertor +", as I believe they are two REALLY different effects.
I can't concieve doing a gig with only a ConVertor, while I certainly did with the FI. As it has been pointed, we're talking about a 4 osc monster, with a filter and an effect section. While the Sonicsmith is "merely" a single oscillator - and a switchable filter that I personally don't find that useful.

Now, about the criticisms of the ConVertor +, I see it this way : Considering this device is only meant to generate a raw oscillator that tracks your pitch and CV out to control external gear, I think it excels at this.
I have been dreaming about controlling synths and modular with my bass for a long time, and have been through a lot of different options - some better than other, but mostly... expensive and not-so-practical ones. With their update (especially on the gating), the technology Sonicsmith developed is hard to dislike.

And soundwise, I like the sound of the oscillator. Especially the Sawtooth! (As I said before, the square is really reminiscent of the Bit Commander, if that might helps you to imagine the sound)

Are there any other features I would have liked? Yes, definitely. Some of these are actually on the Squaver P1, some are to be found elsewhere. (Knowing it is possible to control modular with the ConVertor, its really only a matter of finding the right tool for the job... and the money to own it...)

Are there features I don't see as useful? Again, yes. But some might think it's as cool as it get. I personally never saw a real utility for CV controlling the harmony. As the steps are quantized, and not to a chromatic scale, I find this a little limiting in its use.

But, Sonicsmith never claimed that the ConVertor could do something it can't. So yeah, basically, that's how I approached this. It does what it says, and it does it really well in my opinion - and in my set up. YMMV

I'm loading a video where I play a bass low on the neck, so the tracking should be more "mesurable" !

I hope it helps explaining why I might have sounded like a sold out idiot, and why I think/hope its not true !

Cheers,
Maxime

 

[ChubbyJerk]

Oh, I see why I might have sounded like this! I'm sorry it came out that way, I'll try to quickly explain a possible reason..

About the video, I wanted to do a demo of the ConVertor, not a review in a technical sens. Looking at other channels, I thought "seeing the musician" wasn't that important, and I wanted to make a fun video.

Regarding the comparaison with the FI, I should have been clearer in what I was saying. I was only comparing the tracking of the two devices. I wasn't trying to say that "the FI isn't as good a pedal as the ConVertor +", as I believe they are two REALLY different effects.
I can't concieve doing a gig with only a ConVertor, while I certainly did with the FI. As it has been pointed, we're talking about a 4 osc monster, with a filter and an effect section. While the Sonicsmith is "merely" a single oscillator - and a switchable filter that I personally don't find that useful.

Now, about the criticisms of the ConVertor +, I see it this way : Considering this device is only meant to generate a raw oscillator that tracks your pitch and CV out to control external gear, I think it excels at this.
I have been dreaming about controlling synths and modular with my bass for a long time, and have been through a lot of different options - some better than other, but mostly... expensive and not-so-practical ones. With their update (especially on the gating), the technology Sonicsmith developed is hard to dislike.

And soundwise, I like the sound of the oscillator. Especially the Sawtooth! (As I said before, the square is really reminiscent of the Bit Commander, if that might helps you to imagine the sound)

Are there any other features I would have liked? Yes, definitely. Some of these are actually on the Squaver P1, some are to be found elsewhere. (Knowing it is possible to control modular with the ConVertor, its really only a matter of finding the right tool for the job... and the money to own it...)

Are there features I don't see as useful? Again, yes. But some might think it's as cool as it get. I personally never saw a real utility for CV controlling the harmony. As the steps are quantized, and not to a chromatic scale, I find this a little limiting in its use.

But, Sonicsmith never claimed that the ConVertor could do something it can't. So yeah, basically, that's how I approached this. It does what it says, and it does it really well in my opinion - and in my set up. YMMV

I'm loading a video where I play a bass low on the neck, so the tracking should be more "mesurable" !

I hope it helps explaining why I might have sounded like a sold out idiot, and why I think/hope its not true !

Cheers,
Maxime

I appreciate the reply. I think you might be interpretating my posts as more negative than they're intended. I'm just saying that I am approaching it with a healthy dose of skepticism until given solid evidence otherwise by an impartial third party. Hopefully I'm not coming across as rude.