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Sonicsmith Pitch Tacking Analog Synths (Converter and Squaver P1)

#61
Sorry for the delay, I went out and got carried away ;)

Here's the video I did to show the tracking of the two basic waves.

Sonicsmith - ConVertor + - Basic waves with flats

I go through the two waves at 50% blend and 100% wet.

I tried to use open strings, fifth and jumps in the register. I also tried play different note length.

This unit is a prototype of the upcoming + version. I have talked with Sonicsmith, and after my feedback they have updated the envelope/decay. They "increased the ENV decay time constant to about 110ms and increased the gate threshold hysteresis to 200mV." Which should result in less "ripple" in the note decay (especially when patching the ENV CV into the VCA - I'll demo this later :) ).
As far as I know, the final version won't change much, except for this and a more sensitive envelop response (only affects ENV CV out.)

I'm using the "Unisson" setting, which means it can go two octave below this... Or I could have played an octave higher - and tune the ConVertor an octave lower - for a better tracking... (Not a problem here, but it is a bit glitchier with roundwounds. I mainly use flats but -> I'll try to demo this - when I'm done repairing my Rickenbacker... :( ...)

As stated in the video description, the audio path is '83 Squier JV Pbass (mounted with Thomastik flats) -> ConVErtor + -> logic x. No post processing except for a limiter that isn't working 99.9% of the time, as it is only to ensure a good listening experience, and no clipping. Its a "straight to DAW" sound.

I'll try to do other videos like this. So if you have any request..! :) (So far, I plan to do - CV controlling external gear, ConVertor+ with other effects, voluntary glitching, Side Chaining and the enveloppe ... will probably take time, but I'll post them one by one

P.S. @Alien8 , the CV path in my first demo was
Bass VI -> ConVertor + -> Pitch out -> CV in of 3 saw oscillators
-> Gate out -> ADSR -> VCA
-> ENV out -> LP filter Cutoff. If I remember correctly I used a 18db/oct slope.
I use a Roland AIRA module (Bitrazer) that I configure with 3 osc, 1 filter, 1 ADSR and 1 VCA.
Something like, but not exactly this (I didn't connect the cables obviously) Capture d'écran 2018-03-17 à 11.00.01.png

)

Cheers,

Maxime
 

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#62
nshuman said:
I'd really like to see a video with actual bass playing to gauge tracking and latency. The last video on Facebook showed audio that was off sync by like 1-2 seconds. It's hard to gauge what is really happening when the demos are like that.
Click to expand...

Sorry for coming in a bit late to the action here but can you specify which video you're referring to? Is it the "Violin Modulations Ep. 3" vid or our "Sonicsmith first generation synth upgrade" vid? I can reply to criticism of the audio/video syncing on either vid...
 
#63
Zeflyingcat said:
Sorry for the delay, I went out and got carried away ;)

Here's the video I did to show the tracking of the two basic waves.

Sonicsmith - ConVertor + - Basic waves with flats

I go through the two waves at 50% blend and 100% wet.

I tried to use open strings, fifth and jumps in the register. I also tried play different note length.

This unit is a prototype of the upcoming + version. I have talked with Sonicsmith, and after my feedback they have updated the envelope/decay. They "increased the ENV decay time constant to about 110ms and increased the gate threshold hysteresis to 200mV." Which should result in less "ripple" in the note decay (especially when patching the ENV CV into the VCA - I'll demo this later :) ).
As far as I know, the final version won't change much, except for this and a more sensitive envelop response (only affects ENV CV out.)

I'm using the "Unisson" setting, which means it can go two octave below this... Or I could have played an octave higher - and tune the ConVertor an octave lower - for a better tracking... (Not a problem here, but it is a bit glitchier with roundwounds. I mainly use flats but -> I'll try to demo this - when I'm done repairing my Rickenbacker... :( ...)

As stated in the video description, the audio path is '83 Squier JV Pbass (mounted with Thomastik flats) -> ConVErtor + -> logic x. No post processing except for a limiter that isn't working 99.9% of the time, as it is only to ensure a good listening experience, and no clipping. Its a "straight to DAW" sound.

I'll try to do other videos like this. So if you have any request..! :) (So far, I plan to do - CV controlling external gear, ConVertor+ with other effects, voluntary glitching, Side Chaining and the enveloppe ... will probably take time, but I'll post them one by one

P.S. @Alien8 , the CV path in my first demo was
Bass VI -> ConVertor + -> Pitch out -> CV in of 3 saw oscillators
-> Gate out -> ADSR -> VCA
-> ENV out -> LP filter Cutoff. If I remember correctly I used a 18db/oct slope.
I use a Roland AIRA module (Bitrazer) that I configure with 3 osc, 1 filter, 1 ADSR and 1 VCA.
Something like, but not exactly this (I didn't connect the cables obviously) Capture d'écran 2018-03-17 à 11.00.01.png

)

Cheers,

Maxime
Click to expand...

That's great, thank you. I love the way you listened to criticism and went off to give some of what we said was missing. No arguing, no defensive attitude, just discussion and an additional video.

Very much appreciated.
 
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#66
Zeflyingcat said:
Sorry for the delay, I went out and got carried away ;)

Here's the video I did to show the tracking of the two basic waves.

Sonicsmith - ConVertor + - Basic waves with flats

I go through the two waves at 50% blend and 100% wet.

I tried to use open strings, fifth and jumps in the register. I also tried play different note length.

This unit is a prototype of the upcoming + version. I have talked with Sonicsmith, and after my feedback they have updated the envelope/decay. They "increased the ENV decay time constant to about 110ms and increased the gate threshold hysteresis to 200mV." Which should result in less "ripple" in the note decay (especially when patching the ENV CV into the VCA - I'll demo this later :) ).
As far as I know, the final version won't change much, except for this and a more sensitive envelop response (only affects ENV CV out.)

I'm using the "Unisson" setting, which means it can go two octave below this... Or I could have played an octave higher - and tune the ConVertor an octave lower - for a better tracking... (Not a problem here, but it is a bit glitchier with roundwounds. I mainly use flats but -> I'll try to demo this - when I'm done repairing my Rickenbacker... :( ...)

As stated in the video description, the audio path is '83 Squier JV Pbass (mounted with Thomastik flats) -> ConVErtor + -> logic x. No post processing except for a limiter that isn't working 99.9% of the time, as it is only to ensure a good listening experience, and no clipping. Its a "straight to DAW" sound.

I'll try to do other videos like this. So if you have any request..! :) (So far, I plan to do - CV controlling external gear, ConVertor+ with other effects, voluntary glitching, Side Chaining and the enveloppe ... will probably take time, but I'll post them one by one

P.S. @Alien8 , the CV path in my first demo was
Bass VI -> ConVertor + -> Pitch out -> CV in of 3 saw oscillators
-> Gate out -> ADSR -> VCA
-> ENV out -> LP filter Cutoff. If I remember correctly I used a 18db/oct slope.
I use a Roland AIRA module (Bitrazer) that I configure with 3 osc, 1 filter, 1 ADSR and 1 VCA.
Something like, but not exactly this (I didn't connect the cables obviously) Capture d'écran 2018-03-17 à 11.00.01.png

)

Cheers,

Maxime
Click to expand...



Excellent work on both videos - both demo the Convertor+ you have really well. As @ChubbyJerk says too, nice work with keeping it honest, and humble. Ultimately we are all (and don't mean to speak for others here) commenting and asking questions because there is interest in these capabilities. I for one am very happy to hear that these products are being supported with updates, and that improvements are turning over fairly quickly.

As far as what I hear, in the hands of a bassist the tracking playing a P with flats and gating has improved with the Convertor+ you have. It sounds much more usable than it sounded previously. As you mention, updates to the CV outputs will only make it better. I would even go so far as to say that a good percentage of extra noise or glissando is coming from natural technique and fret hand muting - which I think is really freaking cool to be able to play with your hands. Trigger a glissando with a plucking finger technique: yes please! I realize this is a happy mistake, since it is happening somewhat randomly. Either way, your technique is spot on, so well done!

The ACO tone is AAA high grade robot fart with a thick bottom! That's a good thing for subtractive synthesis. I can still hear the high frequency wine when not using the LPF in the post position. Perhaps a voltage controlled notch filter could target this byproduct in future versions would help? It's really getting to the point where really clean playing is needed, since ALL sound is translated. That's a good thing.
 
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#67
Anyone try the conVertor driving a Minitaur?

Right now i'm using Jam Origin's Midi Bass on a MacBookPro, it works pretty well, but there are still some features not implemented, the most important of which is string bend.

If this pedal works well i'd rather have it then a laptop. Maybe route the audio out to the audio in of the Minitaur?

I've been messing with Midi bass for years as well - owned a Peavey Cyberbass which tracked pretty well (ended up having issues tho), I feel fairly good about the Jam Origin Software.
 
#68
Hey there,
Sorry it's been a week and I still haven't finished my second video... I had a few last minute gigs (one being a bass solo for a cocktail animation... that was unexpected, but fun nonetheless)
And it takes a lot of time - especially when the camera stops working...

Regarding the content of the upcoming videos : @Alien8 "How does it sound with a compressor before it? I notice the volume envelope can be peaky, does a comp smooth it out?"
You don't actually need a compressor in front of the ConVertor to smooth it out, as you can route the ENV OUT back to the VCA IN (effectively "activating" the ENV knob - if that makes any sens). This way, it is possible to completely flatten the response, or even to invert it. (My version being a prototype, there is a bit of "ripple" when the gate closes on those settings. I talked about it with Sonicsmith and as I said earlier in the thread, they seem to have resolved this problem)

Just for the anecdote, I took the ConVertor + for a live techno gig, and it was a real pleasure. Until I accidentally hit the "side chain" switch that turned the side chain on - without anything plugged in the side chain input, and drastically reduced the volume of the synth... Took me a minute to understand what happened, with the loud music, party going on and overall darkness... Well, I might want to tidy up my setup a bit...

@thumbslapper : I haven't tried to drive a minitaur, but reading from the Moog manual
" CONTROL VOLTAGE INPUTS:
Pitch CV: 0 to +5V
Filter CV: 0 to +5V
Volume CV: 0 to +5V
Gate: +5V trigger "

And from the ConVertor's manual :
"PITCH CV out - 1V/octave 0-8V CV corresponding to the pitch detected by the ACO from the main input.
ENV CV out - CV representation of the input's level generated by an envelope follower.
GATE / TRIG CV out - Stereo output with 9V gate CV out (from ACO) on the left channel and 9V trigger CV out (15ms pulse width) on the right channel "

So if you go Pitch Out - Pitch In || Env out - Filter In || Gate Out - Gate In it should work as a "touch responsive moog"...
Don't know for sure, but this is the patch I did when controlling a "oscillator + filter + VCA" synth. I'll try it if I get a chance.
If someone more knowledgable could chime in...

Regarding MIDI basses, I have ordered a Kenton CV to MIDI converter. I should receive it in two weeks, and I'll let you know how it works !

Another anecdote , I got myself a MoogerFooger MF 107 Freqbox that I use as a second oscillator / FM source / hardsynced osc... depending on the setup. Using the Pitch CV out of the ConVertor + in the Freq in of the MoogerFooger, it works like a charm (after finetuning the VCO of the Moog).
(I got it trading it for a CSIDMAN from Catalinbread. Now that's going from digital to analog ! ;) )

Ok enough for now, I'll be back with a video as soon as possible! Sorry for the delay.

Cheers,
Maxime
 
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#69
Zeflyingcat said:
Hey there,

@thumbslapper : I haven't tried to drive a minitaur, but reading from the Moog manual
" CONTROL VOLTAGE INPUTS:
Pitch CV: 0 to +5V
Filter CV: 0 to +5V
Volume CV: 0 to +5V
Gate: +5V trigger "

And from the ConVertor's manual :
"PITCH CV out - 1V/octave 0-8V CV corresponding to the pitch detected by the ACO from the main input.
ENV CV out - CV representation of the input's level generated by an envelope follower.
GATE / TRIG CV out - Stereo output with 9V gate CV out (from ACO) on the left channel and 9V trigger CV out (15ms pulse width) on the right channel "

So if you go Pitch Out - Pitch In || Env out - Filter In || Gate Out - Gate In it should work as a "touch responsive moog"...
Don't know for sure, but this is the patch I did when controlling a "oscillator + filter + VCA" synth. I'll try it if I get a chance.
If someone more knowledgable could chime in...
Maxime
Click to expand...

Maxime, this is exactly what I did when I controlled the Minitaur using my guitar -- except I patched the ConVertor ENV out to the Volume CV in on the Minitaur.

The pitch out from the ConVertor stays under 5V unless you play higher than 800Hz, which is pretty much impossible on a bass guitar. :)

There seemed to be no problem with driving the Minitaur gate to +9v (as long as it's above the threshold, it shouldn't make a difference).

The only thing I would add is that the Minitaur is tuned REALLY low -- 0V is something like 8Hz if I remember correctly. So the output frequency was around 2 octaves lower than what I was playing. I believe you can remedy this by playing a MIDI note to shift the pitch but I didn't have any MIDI devices to test that with.

With the caveat that I am no guitar virtuoso, here is how it sounds:
 
#70
Maxime/Brian -

thx for the replys - seems like you were able to hook everything up succesfully.

It is weird that the combo (convertor + minitaur) seems to play the notes 2 octaves lower tho - while thats probably ok using a guitar it would be rough playing on a bass. There isn't a way on the convertor to fix that is there (ie go up 1-2 octaves).

I'm almost ready to abandon my long held bass-to-MIDI dreams and instead go with a bass-to-CV solution. having to rely on a laptop at a gig is not a great idea.

thx both!

-carl
 
#71
thumbslapper said:
Maxime/Brian -
It is weird that the combo (convertor + minitaur) seems to play the notes 2 octaves lower tho - while thats probably ok using a guitar it would be rough playing on a bass. There isn't a way on the convertor to fix that is there (ie go up 1-2 octaves).

thx both!

-carl
Click to expand...
It's definitely possible to configure the Minitaur to play in unison with the ConVertor. I was borrowing that Minitaur from my local music store and I spent a lot of time getting it to track at two octaves down (it turned out the Minitaur came out of the box without any factory calibration of pitch CV, and it took several calls to Moog customer service to resolve this).

I understand that you can play a MIDI note into the Minitaur to transpose the tuning. I didn't have any MIDI source when I was doing this test but it should be easy for you pros. :) Then presumably you can save the configuration into the Minitaur memory so you don't have to "play a MIDI note" into it every time you power it on and set up the patch.
 
#72
Hey there!

Finally managed to finished the second "regular" video of the ConVertor + !

This time, I use it through other effects. I think it is necessary to pair it with other pedals to get the best out of the synth ! (especially a Low Pass Filter... The Squaver P1 + has one included, but not the smaller ConVertor + )



The pedals used are :
- Roland Aira Modular BitRazer patched as a simple 18db/oct LPF. It is used the whole video, as I never use my ConVertor+ without a filter after it. Note that there is a light overdrive module after the filter that I use to tame the resonance peak when playing live.
It is controlled by a Source Audio Reflex Expression Pedal (because the Roland responds to CV and not expression. Also because the Reflex is amazing)
- Exar Moby Dick, stereo chorus.
- Pigtronix Echolution2 Deluxe, stereo delay
- Whammy V, pitch shifter
- Sonuus Voluum, as a tremolo

I'll be working on the CV controlling side later in April, as I have a lot of things planned, and being so unexperienced with demo filming, it takes me a huge amount of time..!


Once again, if you have any question, suggestion or remark, please hit me up, as I would be happy to help/provide/improve :)

Cheers,
Maxime
 
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#73
Brian Kaczynski said:
You guys have eagle eyes! We noticed the bad syncing ourselves and fixed it and uploaded it again to YouTube:

The part from 1:29 to 2:20 was already well synced -- we just fixed the part from 2:34 onwards. Thanks for keeping us on our toes!
Click to expand...


I didn't think this tracking was bad. I am tempted to buy one of the Squarver P1s at the blowout price. I wonder if a Kala U-Bass would be tracked well, seems like less harmonics and more fundamental in it's notes. I also like the visual of playing the P1 with one of those and the P1 patched with my modular.
 
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#74
Zeflyingcat said:
Hey there!

Finally managed to finished the second "regular" video of the ConVertor + !

This time, I use it through other effects. I think it is necessary to pair it with other pedals to get the best out of the synth ! (especially a Low Pass Filter... The Squaver P1 + has one included, but not the smaller ConVertor + )



The pedals used are :
- Roland Aira Modular BitRazer patched as a simple 18db/oct LPF. It is used the whole video, as I never use my ConVertor+ without a filter after it. Note that there is a light overdrive module after the filter that I use to tame the resonance peak when playing live.
It is controlled by a Source Audio Reflex Expression Pedal (because the Roland responds to CV and not expression. Also because the Reflex is amazing)
- Exar Moby Dick, stereo chorus.
- Pigtronix Echolution2 Deluxe, stereo delay
- Whammy V, pitch shifter
- Sonuus Voluum, as a tremolo

I'll be working on the CV controlling side later in April, as I have a lot of things planned, and being so unexperienced with demo filming, it takes me a huge amount of time..!


Once again, if you have any question, suggestion or remark, please hit me up, as I would be happy to help/provide/improve :)

Cheers,
Maxime
Click to expand...


Looking forward to a Convertor \ Freqbox + filter demo. Can you patch pitch CV to Freqbox pitch AND pitch to filter frequency?

You could probably use the envelope CV out to gate the Freqbox as well, maybe to audio input, or mix with the osc patched to the audio input.
 
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#77
Hello there!!
Once again, I got carried away for way to long... (alternating between gigs, production/writing and music teaching as a substitute in a school for teenagers... this last activity leave me empty of time and energy. One last week and I'm done!)

But I got the latest and bigger Squaver P1 +, and the cute and small Modulor A1.
I'll do a video demo of these unit, when time permits... But I can already tell you that the Squaver is an incredible unit. There is actually more than I thought when looking at the pictures and manual. With the PWM on the square, you get this kind of "detuned" sound PWM is loved for. Then with the blendable saw and the blendable subs (-1 and -2) you can get something almost "3 osc-ish"...
Well, let me know if you want me to write a review here or start another thread.

And please, let me know what you'd like to see on the video. Do you need to see me play ? Do you want to hear/see anything specific ? Your favorite demo type? ...

I did a quick sound comparaison of the Squaver P1, the Future Impact and the Bit Commander. It is only the raw oscillators sound, and - for the Squaver and FI, three settings for the filter.
I only recorded the audio tho, as there isn't anything happening on the pedals except for the on/off switch, and a few tweak.
Would anybody here be interested in hearing these audiofiles, and if yes, what is the best way to share them with you ? Soundcloud link with comments and info on what is currently played ? Should I upload a video with audio, with the info on the screen? @OhulahanBass and @ChubbyJerk , as we talked about Sonicsmith and Future Impact maybe

And lastly, @Alien8 , yes, I will demo this. The pitch controlling the freqbox is actually my current setup, allowing me to add another oscillator to the Squaver! (huge synth sound for sure..!)
I just had to tune my MoogerFooger CV scaling, but that was quick and easy.
The only downside of this setup is that you have to use the "audio out" instead of the "oscillator out" on the Freqbox. (due to the VCA being only on the audio out - so there is always sound coming out of the osc out)
And for reasons I dont know, there is a slight loss of high end on this output. Actually, on almost every MoogerFooger I tried. It's warm and pleasant, but I wish it could be reduced a little, to give more high end for the filter to work with.
But, you do get the possibility to FM and sync the freqbox's osc with the incoming Squaver, so that's nice.
Oh, and you can't get the freqbox to sound lower than your actual pitch, unless you use attenuator on the pitch CV.
If you're interested, I could post a picture of this part of my now semi modular board. :)

Let me know if there is anything I could do, eventho it will probably take me more time than I'd like to provide these info. But I'll try my best.

Thanks,
Maxime
 
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