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Double Bass Sore elbow - bow arm

djc03006

djc03006

Apr 4, 2011
278
129
#1
Hi,

I’m a beginner and have experienced some soreness in my bowing arm elbow recently, and I play a German bow. I think it’s caused by supplementing my arm weight with some additional pressure (mainly through the thumb placed on top of the bow) while playing stopped notes low on the E string and also A string.

I feel greater resistance in the bow while playing stopped notes on these strings, especially in lower positions, relative to playing stopped notes on the D and G strings, and relative to playing the E and A open strings, where I can produce a good sound with minimal effort.

It is also causing some tenderness in the webbing of my hand between the thumb and index finger. My question is, is it normal to encounter this additional resistance felt in the bow in these situations, and if so, is it advisable to counteract that resistance with pressure through the thumb? Wondering if the French bow would present similar issues also.

Thanks
 
#2
There are different ways of using the thumb and I would advise against taking council of forums. Lessons with a good teacher is the solution here. You will likely talk about armweight, using large muscles (shoulder, arm and even waist). I would also examine your left hand contact and strings/setup. In a lesson, I would try your bass and bow to see what you are up against.
 
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#4
etorgerson said:
Are you playing from the side standing? If so, you’re fighting gravity AND you are having to press against your own body. If you haven’t done so already, try playing on a stool.
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While standing that way is not my preference, it is one of if not the most beneficial and relaxing for the bow and I know many excellent german bow players who stand this way.
 
#5
Thank you both for the responses. I did talk about this with my teacher the other night, and have been practicing on a stool recently (both for this reason and I find it a little easier to focus). I am continuing to focus on good left contact with the strings, which I think helps. A little awareness while playing, I find goes a long way, so being mindful is also helpful.
 
#7
On the stool, you can let gravity do the work -sinking into the strings with both arms. Try learning to play more at the heel, around BEAD. Your shoulders wil square up and you can relax more.
Of course, I defer to your teacher who likely is far better versed than I.
 
#8
etorgerson said:
On the stool, you can let gravity do the work -sinking into the strings with both arms. Try learning to play more at the heel, around BEAD. Your shoulders wil square up and you can relax more.
Of course, I defer to your teacher who likely is far better versed than I.
Click to expand...
I disagree. If you cannot play relaxed standing something else is wrong. Sitting will not fix the underlaying issue.

In fact, I won my first job standing straight and chose that posture because it was great for the bowarm. Now I sit, either way will work fine.
 
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#9
UPDATE**

I think my issue relates to getting a consistently good bite on the strings. To compensate for the excess pressure I was generating, I slowed down my bow speed in order to get the bite I wanted without having to use too much weight / pressure.

I had a first lesson the other day with a teacher who noted I was using a very small part of the bow, and to practice going frog to tip on everything I played. I noticed once I started doing this, the bow speed naturally had to increase a good deal. The bow now started sliding across the strings without getting a good bite (especially on lower strings, like E and A). This lead to me using more weight / pressure to get a decent bite, and the elbow soreness came back.

I revisited a few posts here on TB, and found a few nuggets of wisdom:

- adjust bow tension (David Potts post on adjusting until hair touches 3 strings when hair is in contact with stick and then making quarter turn adjustments to dial in from there). This resulted in using significantly less bow tension, which helped to a degree.
- Use slower bow speed and bow closer to fingerboard on the lower strings
- Maybe use a better rosin? I am using Pops, maybe should try the Wiedoeft or another brand.
 
#10
Not sure if those nuggets were particularly wise. I would disrecommend turning to a forum to solve this issue. If I were to name the top 10 players I work with, all would break two out of those three and many all three.

If you cant get things to work with Pops, something else is wrong. Maybe you would prefer something else, but if you cant grab the string with pops, there are non-rosin related issues.

The bow tension «rule» assumes all sticks are the same tightness, all frogs and cambers are the same, all rep is the same, playing is same and goals are same etc.

I certainly do not move my point of contact north on the lower strings as a default.
 
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#11
I agree that if you can’t get Pops’ rosin to work something else is probably going on but make sure it’s fresh Pops’. Depending on the climate Pops’ only lasts a few months. If you’re in an area like I am it’s going to start drying out a lot faster this time of year. I’m anxiously awaiting a fresh cake.
 
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#12
Thank you both for the follow up. Good question, not sure how old the rosin is. I can get a decent enough bite with it, just that there may be better options (I also am going to clean the old rosin off the strings, they're kind of funky at this point).

And good point on the bow tension "rule", it's surely not an apples to apples comparison. But these are all things that I am building a general awareness of and appreciation for, which these forums help a great deal with.
 

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