sorting notes and tabs

[wcnewby]

I'm beginning bass player and am having frustration with notes and tabs. I want to be able to read music so I picked up books with exercises. These have taught me to read the notes.

The thing I notice is that bass players use patterns. If you read the notes, you discover the pattern, and it becomes easier to play without reading the notes. So far so good....

Now, more advanced lessons. We are playing fifths instead of open notes, for ease of keeping the patterns and to allow the pattern to move around on the neck. Enter the frustration. The notes I am reading do not indicate that they should be played in a different position. This is where tab is easier for me, but then I don't know the notes, and I'm reading tab again when I want to read music.

I find that if I try to read the music, I can't play the piece because my mind is translating instead of telling my fingers to move where they should be. If I memorize the tab, I can play it like lightning. I don't even have to think, my fingers retain the muscle memory and all is good.

Now, my worry. I am not an experienced player, and I don't want to go down a road that is going to make furthering my skill more difficult. I don't want to be stuck on a low plateau because I taught myself something that prevents me from advancement.

How do the experienced people sort this out?

Wayne

 

[Tupac]

That's a good question, I've never thought about this before. I guess if you know the fretboard like the back of your hand you can switch however you like.

 

[wcnewby]

The question is how you should know your fretboard. Should you view it as notes, or a playground for patterns? I first ran into the problem when trying to play an exercise from the book. A simple boogie riff... I was trying to do it by reading the notes and it was defying my efforts. Then I recognized it as something I knew and had memorized, after which it was dirt simple.

For example, the notes say G, B, A but they don't say what ones, or maybe more properly, where. By looking at the tabs, you learn the way that it was meant to be fingered, and that is likely to be far easier than any other way to play it.

I suppose once I have more time in it won't be an issue, as you say, if I know anything like the back of my hand it will help with the other stuff.

 

[simmerdown]

im a visual beast, i learned those patterns all up and down, scales modes, lalala....1/2 the time i dont think of what note it is, but i know im in key, and where to go next....not trying to learn songs though, no interest, i write my own lines, so...might not apply, and i might be hindering myself in the future, idk, but it sure is FUN, which is #1 for me......

 

[wcnewby]

This is the balance I am seeking. I want to be a technically competent player, but I don't want to sound like a robot. This means that what I play has to be fun, or it won't sound fun. It is passion like this that separates musicians from people who play instruments. Right now I practice for two hours per day, once in the morning and once at night. I concentrate on note reading for one session, slapping and rhythm in the other, which is always more fun.

I hope that by persisting with the technical study that playing that sort of thing will become fun because with practice it will be easier. Still, I wonder about how the note people deal with fifths, and how the tab people deal with note length and hence rhythm. Are there note/tab people out there who have found fertile middle ground?

W

 

[skwee]

It ends up being a little more time consuming in the practice room, but trying to find a couple of ways/neck positions to play a sequence will help you. You have to take into account that your brain may find another equally valid way to play something.

In my everyday work as a singer, I use notes. With my instrumental playing I worry more about chord symbols and learned patterns, but I refer to tab from time to time if I'm having trouble working something out, as a time-saver, and I also notate in tab in rehearsal--that tends to be my fastest reference.

I'm confident you'll get very proficient at using numerous ways to look at musical puzzles, which seems to be a very strong and flexible way to be.

 

[wcnewby]

So it seems that a competent musician should use both, and the argument of one being better than the other is indefensible; like saying apples are better than oranges... both of them are good for you.

 

[905]

So it seems that a competent musician should use both, and the argument of one being better than the other is indefensible; like saying apples are better than oranges... both of them are good for you.

Uh... use tab all you want.

I would rather liken tab to having one crutch and two broken legs, and sheets to having a wheelchair and no broken legs.


"Enter the frustration. The notes I am reading do not indicate that they should be played in a different position."

Of course not. Sheet music will rarely tell you where (in which position) to play any note, excepting some open notes and occasional fingering guides.
You should know how to play any note in any position. That has in and of itself nothing to do with fifths or patterns at all. If you see the patterns, that's great.

My advice:
Stop using tabs. Play by sheet music until you can see a note on the staff and play the right note in the correct octave without thinking about it.

And please post pictures or something so we can understand what you're actually talking about. We're not cryptographers.

 

[wcnewby]

I recognize the danger of tabs, you could go on using them forever, and be stuck on a low plateau. I am forcing myself to read notes because it would bother me to sit around listening to a song over and over when I could just pick up a copy of the music and have it dead on the nuts right away.

BUT... I do see usefulness in tabs, if only as a form of shorthand for jotting down something you found while practicing, or for communicating with beginners. We all start by tab, you have to.

If Peter Pan played bass, he would do it by tab. So we all start out Peter Panning it, and Neverland is a blast. I suppose that is the danger of playing tab with the lost boys... It's all good until someone needs antibiotics.

 

[Samsound]

If Peter Pan played bass, he would do it by tab. So we all start out Peter Panning it, and Neverland is a blast. I suppose that is the danger of playing tab with the lost boys... It's all good until someone needs antibiotics.

I'll have what he's having...
Gary Busey, is that you?

 

[wcnewby]

My apologies.... I am also a novelist, and a poet. This leads to something akin to noodling when I write. On the positive side, I know lots of words, and I am very good at rhyming. If any of you folks need lyrics I'd be happy to pound them out. I work fast, will do it for free.... Just remember me if you get rich and famous... that is all I ask.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Tab aren't the best solution and remember, many instrument don't have tab !!! only standart notation.

Learn Scale and Arpeggio and you will know where the notes are. And I don't get what you try to say about fifth ?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

That's kind of the whole point there, newby, fingering options are kind of up to you. The written note gives you the pitch you are supposed to play and, since that note is going to appear in a number of different geographic locations on your fingerboard, you need to look at the notes that came before it and the notes that come after and determine, for yourself with your hands and your ability at the current moment, what fingering makes the most sense. Are you headed up or down the fingerboard, does it make the most sense to start on the first/second/third/fourth finger? Does it make the most sense to play this in one position? Or to shift positions?
The more you do it, the more these decisions/choices become second nature (and is another reason to do the work on physical approach - two octave scales, arpeggios etc.) so that you're not trying to do 20 things at once. But for now, sit down and try to figure out 3 different ways to finger what you are reading. One way to start would be to play the first note with your first finger. What finger makes the most sense/is the easiest to play the second note? Then the third? Do you need to shift positions or is there a way to play that pitch in the same position you're currently in?
Then start with that first note being played with your second finger. What possibilities does that bring for the second note? Etc.

 

[wcnewby]

I figured that practice would make it easier. It is good that practice is the solution because I am willing to do that.

 

[wcnewby]

Tab aren't the best solution and remember, many instrument don't have tab !!! only standart notation.

Learn Scale and Arpeggio and you will know where the notes are. And I don't get what you try to say about fifth ?

Fifths are what you call it when you play the fifth fret of the next lowest string rather than an open note. Or, second fret on first string is the same as seventh on the second... I believe that they are called fifths... though I have been wrong before

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Fifths are what you call it when you play the fifth fret of the next lowest string rather than an open note. Or, second fret on first string is the same as seventh on the second... I believe that they are called fifths... though I have been wrong before

Ok I see, never called them like that nor did I heard that before.

The bold part I think you meant 7th fret is the same note as the 2nd fret a string higher. Exemple : 7th fret E strings is B and 2nd fret A string is the same B.

 

[briand]

The bold part I think you meant 7th fret is the same note as the 2nd fret a string higher. Exemple : 7th fret E strings is B and 2nd fret A string is the same B.

or, more to the point, I think. 19th fret E string is B, and 14th fret A string is the same B, and 9th fret D string is the same B, and 4th fret G string is the same B. Same note, all over the fretboard. pick the one that works best for you.

We're not cryptographers.

speak for yourself. 6E8D00F8A17309, etc.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Fifths are what you call it when you play the fifth fret of the next lowest string rather than an open note. Or, second fret on first string is the same as seventh on the second... I believe that they are called fifths... though I have been wrong before

Stop thinking like this. A "fifth" is a specific relationship of pitches to each other, not of geographic locations.
Do you have a teacher?

 

[turbo chicken]

TLDR Version ... learn to play the song all over the neck. Tabs get you in the ball park... it's up to you to get it to home plate. Use your references, ear, recordings. Do your best to learn it note for note... then inject a little of yourself into the song when you play it live.

I will take a reference (tab, notation, chord sheet) and write down the notes ...

Like a tune im working on now (Drink in My Hand)... i wrote out the notes from a tab... Example: CAGAGA CCEG AACA FFGA CCGA CCEG AAAG FFGA CCGA CCEG AAAG FFGA CCGA ...

From here it's a combination using my ear and the tab/notation to get as close to the original as possible. Then I stash my notes away in the binder... and try not to look at it and play what sounds good from that point. That fill you played last time may not fit in the next time you play it.

At then end of the day... long as i got the notes down and the feel/swing of the song... it's not going to sound horrible... if it does... I need to reconsider my hand position. This is why we have "rehersal" as a band. Sometimes you have to just play it and see what sounds good.

Keep in mind im in a coverband ... we don't strive to do note for note covers but the song structure and feel of the original is there.

 

[wcnewby]

Stop thinking like this. A "fifth" is a specific relationship of pitches to each other, not of geographic locations.
Do you have a teacher?

Just because you help me on a forum doesn't make you less a teacher.