so would using the onboard version of say a sadowsky pre give you a different sound compared to the stompbox since the pickups are wired directly to the pre?
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sound difference between outboard and onboard version of the same pre?
- Thread starter narud
- Start date
Don't forget the passive tone control, though. Most passive basses have one but most basses with onboard preamps do away with it (I know it's an optional "upgrade" on the Sadowskys - not sure where they put it in the signal path).
Also the master volume. You could wire it low-impedance AFTER the onboard preamp. One less pot loading down the passive signal. (On a single-pickup bass that could make zero.)
I'm guessing these variances would be subtle but not negligible. Haven't really tested it, though.
Also the master volume. You could wire it low-impedance AFTER the onboard preamp. One less pot loading down the passive signal. (On a single-pickup bass that could make zero.)
I'm guessing these variances would be subtle but not negligible. Haven't really tested it, though.
volume pot will load the pickups...
tone pot will load the pickups...
cable will load the pickups...
not much, but a little...all these generally work together to rob a little bit of treble...
so use a quality low-capacitance cable and keep your knobs on full and you shouldn't hear much difference at all.
tone pot will load the pickups...
cable will load the pickups...
not much, but a little...all these generally work together to rob a little bit of treble...
so use a quality low-capacitance cable and keep your knobs on full and you shouldn't hear much difference at all.
ok just did the testing myself and there was a pretty big difference between onboard and outboard.
Tell us more. Identical controls on each preamp? Was each preamp powered by a single 9v battery?
How long was the cable between your bass and the outboard preamp?
How long was the cable between your bass and the outboard preamp?
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
same pre. wired up in the bass and then later wired up with some jacks to be run outboard. its an alleva coppolo preamp. if you listen with headphones or crank it through a stereo, the difference is pretty noticeable. its very noticeable through an amp. same 9v and when run outboard the addition of a 3 or 4 foot cable.
the difference is exactly as expected...the cable is loading the pickups...I suspect that you also have at least one potentiometer (if not two) loading the pickups, as well...
the net effect is a bit of a low-pass filter...so the signal sounds a little bassier and less "open"...
is the difference noticeable? yes...is it enough to worry about? again, no...
can that difference be compensated for? quite easily
theres one additional 250k pot for the tone control in the outboard clip. in both cases, i was running two 250k volume pots. the difference through an amp was much more noticable than whats heard on these clips. so much so that i wont use the pre onboard. i hated the sound. very wide with super extended clicky highs. i couldnt boost the treble at all and get anything useable. wired up outboard, i had some useful boost that sounded good and the bass boost didnt feel as deep. i already have an enclosure on the way to turn the pre into a pedal.
doing this made me realize why pickup makers wind j's hotter than the typical old fender pickup. on onboard preamp just makes them sound too hifi.
when i told jimmy what my experiences were and how i went from hating it and wanting to sell it to wanting to keep the pre and make a pedal out of it, he thought it was strange. i didnt think there would be that much of a difference at all.
it really made me appreciate when companies wind their pickups to complement their electronics to achieve a specific sound. mixing and matching stock parts and pres like lull is kind of a crapshoot.
it really made me appreciate when companies wind their pickups to complement their electronics to achieve a specific sound. mixing and matching stock parts and pres like lull is kind of a crapshoot.
i actually just found myself wondering about this same thing. i have several modified basses that are currently wired straight to the jack, no volume pot/pre/tone/etc. i was thinking of buying one preamp and making a stompbox or rackmount unit out of it so i could use it for all the basses. would the "loading" issue be less of a problem with no tone pots in the way?
it's amazing...because you can completely change the character of an instrument with a properly-placed shunt capacitor...
but the rule of thumb, for me is this: always begin with a sound that has more overtones than you need...it's much easier to "tame" an instrument than to "inject character" into it...
give me a bright sounding bass any day...I'll make it work for me
loading is a cumulative thing...it's like putting bricks in your wheel barrow...every one counts...by having a no-pot bass with a short, lo-cap cable to an outboard, the difference is LESS than by moving a preamp to outboard and then putting in tone pots, volume pots, etc...
another alternative is to put the passive parts in, but have a switch that bypasses the lot when you're going to use an outboard.
but the rule of thumb, for me is this: always begin with a sound that has more overtones than you need...it's much easier to "tame" an instrument than to "inject character" into it...
give me a bright sounding bass any day...I'll make it work for me
loading is a cumulative thing...it's like putting bricks in your wheel barrow...every one counts...by having a no-pot bass with a short, lo-cap cable to an outboard, the difference is LESS than by moving a preamp to outboard and then putting in tone pots, volume pots, etc...
another alternative is to put the passive parts in, but have a switch that bypasses the lot when you're going to use an outboard.
Interesting thread. I've been toying around the idea of building both my Delano Sonar 3 and Nordstrand 3 band preamps into a dual channel preamp (rackmount or stompbox) so I can utilize each preamp with every one of my basses. Not sure if there's any technical reason why I shouldn't or what I might need to do differently though... Any advise?
I had the same experience with my Sadowsky NYC. Bypassed onboard going through engaged Sadowsky outboard set flat was noticeably different than engaged onboard set flat going through bypassed outboard.
Well the idea I was toying around with was to build both my Delano Sonar 3 and my soon to arrive Nordstrand 3 band pres each into their own box, pick up a rapidfire with master bypass kit from Road Rage and be able to utilize either the Delano or Nordy pres with all of my passive basses. Any thoughts? Tips? Comments? Concerns? I don't know much about electronics, but I can follow a basic wiring diagram and can solder fairly well.
I know it's an old topic, but I'm really courious about that comparison, and the 1st link doesn't work...Is there an option to reupload it? Or is there any other good comparison of same preamps, onboard vs outboard?
It makes a substantial difference. The EQ on an active bass isnt really what matters. The buffer is what gives it that active sound.
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