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Sound Engineer Not Putting Bass Into Monitors
- Thread starter beaglesandbass
- Start date
Well said.
I like to run around a bit, too, but unless I'm playing front man, I have to set my limits. I can't let my having fun force me into a need to have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too situation at the expense of band mates comfort, or throwing the balance of the focus on myself due to my antics to the detriment of the music, front person or anyone else. Hopping and strutting about within my own little audio bass bubble is enough. Otherwise, when I have, for example, been fully wireless and left the stage, into the crowd - without in-ears - I've only done so with knowing my own parts and the music well enough to "imagine it" if I lost playback clarity. If it screws me up then, shame on me - my bad. So knowing material well enough is a good skill to hone, so you don't get hindered when your hearing is compromised due to excessive prancing
Why don't you put your amp on the side of the stage, like a side fill, that way you should be able to hear it over the whole stage, or at least most of it.
Bassically, Michael
Bassically, Michael
I agree with this. I put mine as far back as possible and preferably further back than the drum kit. The extra space between the amp and I just lets me hear it better over most of the stage. If I am right in front of it I can't hear anything
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Here in Ottawa it is quite common for the bass to be left out of the monitors. More than one sound guy has said they will not put bass in the monitors. Although I think a couple of places might put it in the drummers mix.
I always have my amp, so it is has never been a problem. Hearing myself at practices can be a problem, but usually not at gigs.
The only time it has been a problem at gigs is when I can't put the PA near me and we have PA issues. Then I do run the bass through the monitors so I can hear myself while I futz with the PA. But this has only happened twice (knock on wood).
I always have my amp, so it is has never been a problem. Hearing myself at practices can be a problem, but usually not at gigs.
The only time it has been a problem at gigs is when I can't put the PA near me and we have PA issues. Then I do run the bass through the monitors so I can hear myself while I futz with the PA. But this has only happened twice (knock on wood).
What a turd way to respond. But no it's not uncommon at all. The local I played in never did unless the bass player had a like 20 watt amp.
Yeah whatever. For all we know maybe the other band members told the soundman not to put the bass in the monitors because the bass is too loud already.
OK, so there are parts of the stage where you can't hear the bass as well as you might like, but I doubt that you can't hear the bass at all in these spots. You also know that there are places on the stage where you can hear exactly what you want and, if you've done your soundcheck right, you should know that your on stage volume is sitting nicely with the PA mix from an audience perspective.
So if you're confident in all that, why not reserve the running around for the less challenging parts of the bass line where you only need to barely hear yourself to sketch the rest in...go back to the sweet spot for tricky stuff.
So if you're confident in all that, why not reserve the running around for the less challenging parts of the bass line where you only need to barely hear yourself to sketch the rest in...go back to the sweet spot for tricky stuff.
How many monitor mixes? If there is only one mix, then vocals have top priority and I'm trying to remember a vocalist who ever asked me for more bass in the monitors 
As a sound man, I like to have at least four monitor mixes if possible which gives a lot more options for what goes into the wedges. Now that inexpensive digital boards used with powered cabinets are here, individual monitor mixes for each player is a reality for bar bands.
As a bassist, I never ask for bass in the monitors unless there is no bass amp.
As a sound man, I like to have at least four monitor mixes if possible which gives a lot more options for what goes into the wedges. Now that inexpensive digital boards used with powered cabinets are here, individual monitor mixes for each player is a reality for bar bands.
As a bassist, I never ask for bass in the monitors unless there is no bass amp.
i'm curious about this. when i perform, i want to hear all the instruments and vocals in a well balanced mix. i want a sense of the f.o.h. mix so i know how to adjust my own playing dynamics.
am i the only one?
Monitoring needs differ, especially if you're singing—as many singers will get pitchy if they can't hear themselves clearly. Background singers might want their monitors to reflect the main vocal mix, but they rarely want to have to pick themselves out of the FOH mix in their stage wedges (especially as the wedges are already competing against the stage spill).
In my opinion....
When I was regularly sound teching for multi-band events, I gave anybody who asked for bass in monitors a little bass. I typically only ran 2 mon mixes on smaller stages - so I could get them, say, in a drum monitor, but spare the lead vocalist. Sometimes I'd send a 3rd mon signal straight to a smaller amp/spot mon or keyboard sub-mixer so they could blend in the requested monitor item themselves.
My monitor philosophy is in favor of the non-amplified voices and instruments, first and foremost, as any onstage amp for keys, guitars, bass, can be line-of-sight redirected toward the person that wants to hear more (and they're often DI'd for PA anyway). -- For example, if you're having trouble hearing your own rig, be sure that the speakers aren't just hitting your knees, raise it up, closer to ear level if you can, and aim it toward yourself and toward band mates that want it, more or less. If it's DI'd or mic'd to the PA, then the room doesn't need your amp for getting bass blended in. That's mostly the PA's job.
That said, when I do add any requested instruments into monitors, bass included, I go for a defused/balanced definition, as opposed to a more volume effect.
The ideas that bass can damage monitor speakers or that they aren't freq friendly to bass, as well as feedback into other stage mics, is only a problem at too high of volume levels. If it's creating speaker damage or mic bleed, it's the tech's fault that IT'S TOO LOUD in the monitors. if he's paying attention at all, he (or she) will take a moment to be sure it's not at damaging levels. That's just careless, not to mention irreparably abusive to ears.
The definition/diffused/balanced philosophy is all about defining the sound and spreading it around at comfortable, and typically low monitor levels - only where and when needed. It's always worked great for me and never been problematic with sounding bad in a monitor (2-way 10"/12" or 15" + HF horn) due to not handling bass freqs. You don't need it there since the amp, the room and the PA are pushing lows. All that's needed is some definition - which results from upper mid, not lower frequencies. Also, with it being defused at low level to a monitor, or a side fill on the other side of the stage, (again, not loud, just for balanced presence and definition to those in line of sight to discern the rhythmic edge and basic harmonic content of the bass) it's only to help anchor what's what and what's where in the song, not to add volume.
imho - any sound tech that won't try to serve the musicians in order to enhance their performance experience shouldn't be doing sound and should instead be in a lab somewhere keeping all the audio in neat and tidy parameters toward getting optimum, pristine audio - for nobody but their ears alone.
Live sound mixing is about the bridge between the artists and the audience, and to do that with proper audio techniques to serve that purpose, as well as to be creative in the art and craft of beautiful sound (NOT just volume and "hey man, dig how heavy my sub bins are on that kick drum"). [btw, I'm not an extremely technical person about it, I just want balanced sound]
I've heard it said by some sound techs that musicians never make good audio techs :-(p I, of course, disagree. Nothing in audio technology means anything unless it well serves the reason it was designed for - and that is: to translate the art of music and other human expression to people - of course, without damage to the gear, but more so, without damage to the players or listeners. It's more about the art than about the science. Make your musicians/performers happy, whatever it takes, and they'll play better and make a better impact on the audience.
In my not so humble and professional opinion, this is the definitive answer to this dilemma.
Last weekend I had a SG ask me why I was putting my amp at the back of the stage and told him exactly what you said - don't think he believed me LOL. There's a crazy trend hereabouts to put backline a far forward as possible - ***? Doesn't anyone know what "backline" means anymore?
Yes, I played a show in Hollywood a week ago and used their Backline. They had it on the right side of the stage so far forward that I had about 2 feet in front of me before I fell off the stage. I have no idea why, but it seems to be the trend to put gear close to the player. I am not a fan. I prefer 10 feet at least if the stage permits it.
I've played with musicians who expect studio-quality stage mixes in every room and on every gig and stage. Those cats are living in a fantasy world. I often wonder if they believe in unicorns and gnomes too. I played with a band leader who never used wedges, had a $2k IEM system that he never used, and wanted to base his singing off of what he was hearing out of the mains, then expected hardly any stage volume from the backline and drums. 
If someone wants studio quality stage mixing on every gig, then go IEM; otherwise get the vocals high enough in the wedges that singing in key isn't a struggle (which should be the utmost priority with a monitor mix), get what else you want in the monitor, then shut up and play. I also can't stand players who spend ten minutes working with the sound guy getting their monitor mix perfect, spin through a song on soundcheck, then proceed to give monitor instruction through the mains in the middle of the set. It's right up there with live tuning and turning your back to the audience in my world - unprofessional garbage.
If someone wants studio quality stage mixing on every gig, then go IEM; otherwise get the vocals high enough in the wedges that singing in key isn't a struggle (which should be the utmost priority with a monitor mix), get what else you want in the monitor, then shut up and play. I also can't stand players who spend ten minutes working with the sound guy getting their monitor mix perfect, spin through a song on soundcheck, then proceed to give monitor instruction through the mains in the middle of the set. It's right up there with live tuning and turning your back to the audience in my world - unprofessional garbage.
I do this too, actually so does our guitar players - we hear better at lower stage volume and it interferes less with the FOH sound. As to bass in the monitors, I've never felt a need for that; between my own amp and what leaks back from the PA there's no lack of bass on stage. I can imagine it could be a problem on really big stages though, if you don't stand close enough to your amp. If I wanted more personal bass monitoring I'd solve this with a small bass combo at my feet angled up towards me (something I've done when we don't use a backline and only a PA).
I must have the same guys in my band. They get around.I've played with musicians who expect studio-quality stage mixes in every room and on every gig and stage. Those cats are living in a fantasy world. I often wonder if they believe in unicorns and gnomes too. I played with a band leader who never used wedges, had a $2k IEM system that he never used, and wanted to base his singing off of what he was hearing out of the mains, then expected hardly any stage volume from the backline and drums.
If someone wants studio quality stage mixing on every gig, then go IEM; otherwise get the vocals high enough in the wedges that singing in key isn't a struggle (which should be the utmost priority with a monitor mix), get what else you want in the monitor, then shut up and play. I also can't stand players who spend ten minutes working with the sound guy getting their monitor mix perfect, spin through a song on soundcheck, then proceed to give monitor instruction through the mains in the middle of the set. It's right up there with live tuning and turning your back to the audience in my world - unprofessional garbage.
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