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Sound Engineer Not Putting Bass Into Monitors

beaglesandbass

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At one venue my band plays at on a monthly basis, one of the sound guy never puts the bass through the monitors. I've asked him about it and he said it's just not what he does. It's causing me to have to turn up the volume on my amp which causes its own set of stage volume problems.

Is this common?
 
depending on their monitors, they may not be able to reproduce bass appropriately and then do damage to the speaker. or the EQ on the monitor (if there is one) may not allow for proper bass reproduction either...

In that situation should I switch it so my head puts out signal to the direct line out before my head's EQ? Or would that not matter?
 
In my experience, putting bass in wedges causes all sorts of issues with feedback.. goes right into the drum/vocal mics... VERY hard to to control without notching frequencies, which removes what you really want to hear for bass.. catch-22! No bass in monitors turn up amp. Bass in monitors, feedback nightmare.
NOte.. the above depends on the music genre... folks is probably OK.. Anything heavier.. :rollno:


UPDATE: I'm not talking arena or large festival/church stages.. but smaller-sized venues.
Once bass is standing 30 feet from drums.. monitor mixes are a different animal, and if you're playing that size stage you really should be IEM anyway!
 
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Unless we're talking arena, which I don't do, I don't put bass in the wedges... I'll put it in side fills and the drum monitor. For the most part, wedges are reserved for vox and acoustic instruments in my system.

If you need bass in the monitors, is your band's overall stage mix kinda out ? Is your amp not strong enough to hang with the Guitards ? One approach I take in my own band on festival stages is to use my smallest rig. 1x10 combo, albeit a very good one... Nestle it in with the front line wedges pointed back at me. The bass the is in the side fills and drum monitor, maybe the keyboard monitor depending... I find it helps keep the overall stage volume down on deep stages. We are hawkish about managing our stage volume... Too much going on vocally to let it be otherwise.
 
It'll only feedback if horribly EQ'd. And as far as the monitors not handling it, I use 10" monitors for ampless bass players in rock bands all the time no prob. Gotta watch that Sonic Butcher BS :chicken: .
Don't use that junk.. got 31-band EQ on all 6 of my monitor mixes. Most bass players simply aren't aware of physics and ask for monitor feeds 'cus they can't hear themselves when standing 2 feet from their amp!
 
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Nine times out of ten, most monitors aren't suited for bass reproduction. They almost always sound super boxy and clip way too easily. I have played concerts, though, where the monitor engineer puts bass in my wedge and it sounds just as good as what's coming out of my cab. Those situations are the exception, however, rather than the rule. In those situations, though, you kind of need monitors that can handle bass reproduction, since the stage is so big that there would be major phasing problems if the other players were solely relying on your rig to hear you.

I've also played venues with house systems where the drummer gets an actual PA main for a monitor (one venue I used to play where the drummer actually got a whole column with top and sub). Usually, the rest of the band doesn't get that in those situations.
 
Unless we're talking arena, which I don't do, I don't put bass in the wedges... I'll put it in side fills and the drum monitor. For the most part, wedges are reserved for vox and acoustic instruments in my system.

If you need bass in the monitors, is your band's overall stage mix kinda out ? Is your amp not strong enough to hang with the Guitards ? One approach I take in my own band on festival stages is to use my smallest rig. 1x10 combo, albeit a very good one... Nestle it in with the front line wedges pointed back at me. The bass the is in the side fills and drum monitor, maybe the keyboard monitor depending... I find it helps keep the overall stage volume down on deep stages. We are hawkish about managing our stage volume... Too much going on vocally to let it be otherwise.

We'll I'm the only one with an amp. Two guitars and a keyboard DI'd into the board, and then several vocal mic as well. My amp is plenty loud enough (800 watts), but I like to move around, so wherever I go with my wireless, there's always a ton of sound (drums stage volume and mic volume, guitars, keys, and vocals) coming back at me and I have a hard time hearing myself unless I'm in front of my amp. If I turn up then I kinda start to blast the drummer too much.
 
We'll I'm the only one with an amp. Two guitars and a keyboard DI'd into the board, and then several vocal mic as well. My amp is plenty loud enough (800 watts), but I like to move around, so wherever I go with my wireless, there's always a ton of sound (drums stage volume and mic volume, guitars, keys, and vocals) coming back at me and I have a hard time hearing myself unless I'm in front of my amp. If I turn up then I kinda start to blast the drummer too much.
Well then lose the amp and the soundman will have to put you into the monitors.:D If You are the only one using an amp then maybe you are too loud already.
 
Well then lose the amp and the soundman will have to put you into the monitors.:D

LOL :roflmao:

If You are the only one using an amp then maybe you are too loud already.

That's a good point, I'll try turning my amp down when we sound check next time we play there and I'll see how it goes.
 
Any decent venue should have more than one monitor mix. If I was a band mate and you wanted the bass in my monitor because maybe you would wander over to my side of the stage a few times a night I would be pissed off. If your band mates can't hear you then turn up or else the let them be the ones telling the sound guy that they need you in their wedge.
 
At one venue my band plays at on a monthly basis, one of the sound guy never puts the bass through the monitors. I've asked him about it and he said it's just not what he does. It's causing me to have to turn up the volume on my amp which causes its own set of stage volume problems.

Is this common?

The amp IS your monitor; you're standing right in front of it, that's literally what it's there for.

Unless I'm using IEM's I never have bass in the monitor; it sounds awful compared to whats coming out of the amp and it fights for space with the vocals, guitars, keys, and anything else that should actually be in my wedges.

Being able to hear yourself properly when performing using only your amp shouldn't be a problem or cause 'volume issues'...that's how you rehearse after all ;)
 
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At one venue my band plays at on a monthly basis, one of the sound guy never puts the bass through the monitors. I've asked him about it and he said it's just not what he does. It's causing me to have to turn up the volume on my amp which causes its own set of stage volume problems.

Is this common?

In my opinion.... :)

When I was regularly sound teching for multi-band events, I gave anybody who asked for bass in monitors a little bass. I typically only ran 2 mon mixes on smaller stages - so I could get them, say, in a drum monitor, but spare the lead vocalist. Sometimes I'd send a 3rd mon signal straight to a smaller amp/spot mon or keyboard sub-mixer so they could blend in the requested monitor item themselves.

My monitor philosophy is in favor of the non-amplified voices and instruments, first and foremost, as any onstage amp for keys, guitars, bass, can be line-of-sight redirected toward the person that wants to hear more (and they're often DI'd for PA anyway). -- For example, if you're having trouble hearing your own rig, be sure that the speakers aren't just hitting your knees, raise it up, closer to ear level if you can, and aim it toward yourself and toward band mates that want it, more or less. If it's DI'd or mic'd to the PA, then the room doesn't need your amp for getting bass blended in. That's mostly the PA's job.

That said, when I do add any requested instruments into monitors, bass included, I go for a defused/balanced definition, as opposed to a more volume effect.

The ideas that bass can damage monitor speakers or that they aren't freq friendly to bass, as well as feedback into other stage mics, is only a problem at too high of volume levels. If it's creating speaker damage or mic bleed, it's the tech's fault that IT'S TOO LOUD in the monitors. if he's paying attention at all, he (or she) will take a moment to be sure it's not at damaging levels. That's just careless, not to mention irreparably abusive to ears.

The definition/diffused/balanced philosophy is all about defining the sound and spreading it around at comfortable, and typically low monitor levels - only where and when needed. It's always worked great for me and never been problematic with sounding bad in a monitor (2-way 10"/12" or 15" + HF horn) due to not handling bass freqs. You don't need it there since the amp, the room and the PA are pushing lows. All that's needed is some definition - which results from upper mid, not lower frequencies. Also, with it being defused at low level to a monitor, or a side fill on the other side of the stage, (again, not loud, just for balanced presence and definition to those in line of sight to discern the rhythmic edge and basic harmonic content of the bass) it's only to help anchor what's what and what's where in the song, not to add volume.

imho - any sound tech that won't try to serve the musicians in order to enhance their performance experience shouldn't be doing sound and should instead be in a lab somewhere keeping all the audio in neat and tidy parameters toward getting optimum, pristine audio - for nobody but their ears alone.

Live sound mixing is about the bridge between the artists and the audience, and to do that with proper audio techniques to serve that purpose, as well as to be creative in the art and craft of beautiful sound (NOT just volume and "hey man, dig how heavy my sub bins are on that kick drum"). [btw, I'm not an extremely technical person about it, I just want balanced sound]

I've heard it said by some sound techs that musicians never make good audio techs :-(p I, of course, disagree. Nothing in audio technology means anything unless it well serves the reason it was designed for - and that is: to translate the art of music and other human expression to people - of course, without damage to the gear, but more so, without damage to the players or listeners. It's more about the art than about the science. Make your musicians/performers happy, whatever it takes, and they'll play better and make a better impact on the audience.
 
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Most of the techs I play for say they put a set level (aka the absolute minimum) into the mix so it doesn't get completely lost and just asks (only once) if anybody needs more bass and I've never heard anyone ask for more.

All I really need is vox. If I can hear the kick n snare and a little vocal then I can play from the building across the street.
 
What he said!!! Put your speaker at chest or ear level and dont scoop all the mids out of your sound on stage those are the areas in your sound that give you definition and let you hear your self. This is my opinion of course.
 
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We'll I'm the only one with an amp. Two guitars and a keyboard DI'd into the board, and then several vocal mic as well. My amp is plenty loud enough (800 watts), but I like to move around, so wherever I go with my wireless, there's always a ton of sound (drums stage volume and mic volume, guitars, keys, and vocals) coming back at me and I have a hard time hearing myself unless I'm in front of my amp. If I turn up then I kinda start to blast the drummer too much.

My experience: In general everyone wants to hear themselves about 6 to 10 db louder than everyone else. Therefore IHMO it's unrealistic for you to have the bass mixed to your liking everywhere you can go with your wireless. For example, if you run over to the guitars position and get the desired 6-10 db of extra bass in that location, the guitarist will feel the volume of the guitar is 12-20 db below his or her desired level.

If you are going to run around with a wireless you either have to accept you are not going to get as much of you as you want when you leave the immediate vicinity of your amp or go with wireless in ears so you get a consistent mix all the time.