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Sound guy walked on stage and turned me down...

#61
I think a lot of the posters in this thread failed to read my responses thoroughly and read my posts beyond my initial one, and are quick to post nonconstructive comments.


I wasn't signaled to turn down not once.



I really don't have anything more to say, other than that a lot of things that should have been done, were not. There should have been much, MUCH more communication between the soundman and myself. At one point I went to speak into my mic and it had been turned off (I do backing vox, and it was on before), I gave him a "what's up?" look and I was ignored. That didn't register to me then, but I just realized now what he did.


I believe I said this before, there was a signal going from my pedalbaord to the board, however for whatever reason it wasn't being sent through the PA speakers and the monitors in front of me were non operational although they should have had vocals going through them and after realizing the sound problems, my bass. Unfortunately that didn't happen, for reasons that truly bog my mind, haha. The vocals I were hearing where from the speakers facing the crowd.

We'll be playing the venue again in the future and if it still the same soundguy, things will be done the right way. Since I manage the sound when my band practices I'll be a little more assertive and talk with him when it comes to setting up and soundcheck.


Thanks to those of you who posted constructive comments/criticism, all is taken in. Everyday for everyone is a learning experience... this was my first negative one with a soundman and I learned from it.
 
#62
i'm sure there are two sides to this story..

as well, when i go through a PA, i never face my rig to the audience, it faces in from the side, like a side fill. i like it better this way and you don't need to play loud at all.
 
#63
I guess it's a classic conflict when playing small/medium sized venues and the bass also goes trough the PA. The sound guy can hear the stage rig, and it prevents him from being able to control the bottom end of the total frequency spectrum.

I have also been asked to turn down the volume on stage several times, but usually I suggest that he kills the bass in the PA. I HATE it when I an hear my bass more clearly in the PA than through my cabs!!! I like the physical punch I get from having the cabs right behind me playing at a certain level.

BTW, I agree that the sound guy you experienced sounded like a real J***... At least the way you presented the story.
 
#64
i understand what you are saying, but in his defense, he had told you to turn down once and you turned yourself back up.

i used to do the same thing. I couldn't hear myself, so i would turn myself up where me and my drummer could. everyone said we sounded great. i listened to a recording and it sounded like crap.

he was doing his job, rude or not. don't piss the sound guy off...he can make your whole show suck!
 
#65
newbold said:
Sounds like it was a small place. Sound waves propagate and define themselves many feet away. You probably didn't know how to EQ that rig and probably sounded like crap because of it.

It's not rude he was doing his job.

Were YOU going through the PA?

You should have been, and should have turned the rig to only hit the band.

You'll know for next time.
Click to expand...

Pretty much spot on here. I've walked on stage when doing sound and turned down amps. In small venues where front of house mostly accommodates vocals and backline is part of the mix it's sometimes the only option.

It happens. Deal with it.
 
#66
Tbirdbassist said:
I wasn't signaled to turn down not once.
Click to expand...

That you know of.

I believe I said this before, there was a signal going from my pedalbaord to the board, however for whatever reason it wasn't being sent through the PA
Click to expand...

Why would you add MORE bass signal if the bass is too loud in the room?
 
#68
I trust the sound guy. Always. If it sounds like crap and somebody mentions it to me, I say that it was the way the sound guy wanted and not my fault. Well, we have our own sound guy so there's no problem. You should too. Every band should have a sound guy who can do his job and who knows the songs and the band.

Letting some random local sound guy mix your gig is almost never the best option. If you don't have your own sound guy you really can't complain. I have accepted the fact the Finnish clubs kind of suck and most of the time I can't hear myself so I just make sure I hear drums and a bit of vocals and I'm good. We don't improvise so if my tuner says I'm in tune and I see I hit the 5th fret I know how it sounds without even hearing it. But I trust that the audience hears what I play since I can trust our sound guy.
 
#69
This is the very reason that we pay for a sound guy. Your responsibility is to play the music, his responsibility is to make sure the music sounds good. You really should never be at odds with the soundman if you both understand the function of the other.

I'm guessing you were too loud, and he couldn't dial you down any further FOH without a vast decrease in stage volume. Can't fault a brother for doing his job man.
 
#70
There's crappy soundguys and there's good soundguys. That guy might have been able to get a good FOH sound but failed at the rest of his job. He should have communicated with you on the soundcheck to see what you want and make sure you're heard. You did have a proper soundcheck, didn't you? (Didn't read the whole thread too carefully)

Btw, are you sure you guys in the band didn't hear your bass on stage due to a too loud guitar? Feedback problems don't occur "just like that".
 
#71
I agree that the Soundman should have said it more clearly, a good communication is crutial.Also I should say that musicians sometimes think that the Monitor/FOH guy is gonna guess what you want.ESP is not a racked FX :smug:
Being a soundman and a bass player , when someone tells me to lower my stage volume as a bass player, I just pull down the lower frequencies , as long as I hear the pitch ( I play mostly fretless ) , I'm OK.
I would NEVER touch the "backline" as a soundman, if the band don't want to work with me, it's gonna suck and there is nothing I could do about it , a Lose/Lose situation all the way.

What interferes with FOH will always be the Lows , you'll feel it from the PA anyways......
 
#72
That would ^%&% me off big time. If he turned it down to the point where I couldn't hear myself then I would just turn it back up. That, or he needs to put some bass in the monitors.

The purpose of the bass amp is so that I can frickin' hear myself play. If I can't do that then there's no point of me being there.
 
#75
Tbirdbassist said:
Come now Pacman, think about it.

I guess I should have explained better. But send the bass through the PA and stage monitors so I could then turn down the stage rig.
Click to expand...

Sorry, man - I didn't get it. Did you ask for more in your monitor? As an engineer, I definitely wouldn't put your in the PA if you were too loud. The monitors would've helped, if you hadn't turned up after soundcheck - he probably figured HE could hear you, how could you not hear yourself.
 
#76
I've had that problem before. If it's a small stage and a small room, you're going to have issues. What I've found is that if the bass sounds fine to you (coming directly behind you typically) then you're WAY too loud. About 10 feet out away from you the bass keeps getting louder because it carries like a mofo while everything else starts to trail off.

Or at least that's my experience.
 
#77
When I was playing the original club circuit, more often than not, the soundguy wasn't the most qualified for the job. However, instead of challenging him, or fighting him, I usually made friends with him. Bought him a beer. Asked about his band.

Even though the local original scene is huge, it's still a rather tight knit community. I used to see the same bands and the same soundguys night after night. Usually, by the second time I played a club, I felt comfortable making suggestions about the sound...and the sound guy felt confident that I knew what I was talking about.

You'll catch more flies with honey, et cetra, et cetra.
 
#78
FIRST, I am a musician !! And, I am a sound tech. I have run sound in many, many venues. small, medium, Large, outdoor, indoor. I have dealt with bad acoustics, as well as, GREAT acoustics. I have met and dealt with, all kinds of attitudes from musicians. I have seen drummers that demand to "FEEL" the punch from their Bass drum when they kick it. Bass players that want to feel the floor viberate. Lead Guitarist that want to play so LOUD that it is painful for their audience to listen to( say, they are goin' for the tone) . Lead singers that scream with the mic pressed against their mouth, and sing with the mic about 12" away. And these same guys want the sound-man to perform a miracle. A sound mans job is a thankless job. Every individual that hears a Band has their own oppinion as to how a proper mix should be. When I am running sound sometimes I am approached by musicians from the crowd. I always know what instrument they play just by the suggestions they make. Such as, hey man, the guitar needs to be louder, or hey man, can you make that Bass drum punch harder. Everybody wants more of themselves.
Bottom line, if it sounds like **** out front, I'M GONNA FIX-IT!!! After all the sound, reflexs on me !!!!! That's what I get paid for ! And, I do know my job ! TOO MUCH, stage volume when you are being mic'ed is a nightmare for the sound-man. There-fore he has lost control of the mix.
 
#80
Tbirdbassist said:
We'll be playing the venue again in the future and if it still the same soundguy, things will be done the right way. Since I manage the sound when my band practices I'll be a little more assertive and talk with him when it comes to setting up and soundcheck.
Click to expand...

Another way to look at this is that, unless you are bringing in a LOT of money to the place, if you treat the soundperson (who, most likely, spends way more time in that club that you do and knows and influences booking) badly, you won't be asked back.

Bartenders, bouncers, soundpeople, owners...these are all people that should be respected and treated well. Don't go in there (if you get another gig) and try to throw your weight around, unless you are absolutely certain where in the pecking order you fall. It could be very detrimental to your band. Remember, bar owners and booking agents talk to each other, just like we bassists do. Respect goes a long way and you owe them respect, but not necessarily the other way around. Bands are very easily replaceable in most areas.
 

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