Sound guy walked on stage and turned me down...

[kraigo]

Judging from my journeys through various music stores, many of us enjoy a _LOT_ of low end in their tone. Too much really. Having trouble hearing yourself? Dial back the low end and boost the mids. Sometimes playing big, boomy, hollow stages? Pick up an Auralex Gramma. And try to get the rest of your band to turn down.

KO

 

[bikerdoode]

You have the option of playing or not playing.....quit whining

 

[peterpalmieri]

So I've read this all the way through for the first time and there are a few lessons to be learned -

1. As a bass player in the NYC area learn to deal with a GK head and ampeg 8x10 bottom it's a pretty common backline in clubs and rehearsal studios.

2. As a musician and a band member you need to learn how to deal with stage volume issues. Sometimes you can't hear anything (others or yourself), sometimes monitors break, acoustics are poor. Gigs are rarely problem free.

3. When working with anyone musically be it a sound guy or anyone else you need to communicate your needs and goals clearly before hand and be prepared to bend for the greater good.

4. When you are given the opportunity to play in a club, use their equipment, sound system and have a soundman provided for you, it's tough to complain about anything.

5. Finally, allot of stuff happens during a gig. People make mistakes, tempers sometimes flair, things generally don't go as planned. We leave those emotions on stage and make sure we don't make the same mistakes again.

Conclusion, if you play this venue again you have a discussion with the soundman about the problems you had with stage monitoring which includes how loud the drummer plays and how you guys can get a better stage mix. That may include repositioning your amp and where you stand. And you make sure to ask him about what challenges he faced and how you can make his job easier.

As a side note - this idea of smashing a bass over someone's head is immature.

 

[Handreas]

FIRST, I am a musician !! And, I am a sound tech. I have run sound in many, many venues. small, medium, Large, outdoor, indoor. I have dealt with bad acoustics, as well as, GREAT acoustics. I have met and dealt with, all kinds of attitudes from musicians. I have seen drummers that demand to "FEEL" the punch from their Bass drum when they kick it. Bass players that want to feel the floor viberate. Lead Guitarist that want to play so LOUD that it is painful for their audience to listen to( say, they are goin' for the tone) . Lead singers that scream with the mic pressed against their mouth, and sing with the mic about 12" away. And these same guys want the sound-man to perform a miracle. A sound mans job is a thankless job. Every individual that hears a Band has their own oppinion as to how a proper mix should be. When I am running sound sometimes I am approached by musicians from the crowd. I always know what instrument they play just by the suggestions they make. Such as, hey man, the guitar needs to be louder, or hey man, can you make that Bass drum punch harder. Everybody wants more of themselves.
Bottom line, if it sounds like **** out front, I'M GONNA FIX-IT!!! After all the sound, reflexs on me !!!!! That's what I get paid for ! And, I do know my job ! TOO MUCH, stage volume when you are being mic'ed is a nightmare for the sound-man. There-fore he has lost control of the mix.

Good post!

To reply to what I put in bold:
I usually just pretend to adjust the EQ and ask them if that's better. 9 times out of 10 they say yes.

 

[Montsegour]

A little offtopic : Man your vox sounds like Maynard! All the best on that one, ofc.

About the soundguy, let him do his job, you don't know how happy you are.

 

[Tbirdbassist]

Hahaha, a lot of people have said he sounds like Maynard, but I don't hear it... . I don't think he thinks so either or even knows. Whats "ofc".



peterpalmieri, excellent post. We're gonna be playing there again sometime in January, and things will definitely be worked out beforehand. Although I'll be using my own rig and either micing or using the preamp out for PA purposes.

 

[Toshiro]

A sound guy who hops on stage unannounced starts screwing with my gear is a sound guy about to get torn a new one.

I find it interesting that people who spend so much time and money on getting their gear just right are happy to let J. Random Soundguy screw with it.

"As a side note - this idea of smashing a bass over someone's head is immature."

No. The idea isn't immature. Doing it is.

 

[KeithPas]

Let us know how the next gig goes in this place.

 

[Handreas]

A sound guy who hops on stage unannounced starts screwing with my gear is a sound guy about to get torn a new one.

I find it interesting that people who spend so much time and money on getting their gear just right are happy to let J. Random Soundguy screw with it.

"As a side note - this idea of smashing a bass over someone's head is immature."

No. The idea isn't immature. Doing it is.

So you'd prefer your band to sound like **** for the rest of the evening?
I'd rather have the soundman come up and make a small adjustment to my amp during a song for the sake of a better FOH mix, ESPECIALLY if I'm playing a rented/borrowed amp I'm not comfortable with, than hearing from people afterwards that we sounded horrible...
A resident soundguy, at least a good one, knows what works in a venue and what doesn't. Trust him.

All you people in the "kill/mail/severely injure-whoever-touches-my-gear-group" needs to chill out.
And why is it so bad btw?
Is it an ego thing when someone gives you the impression they know more about what works and what doesn't? Or do you think he's gonna break it? Or do you want to get married before you let someone fiddle your knob(s)?

Try to see it from the soundman's point of view. If the band sounds awesome they get praise, if the band sounds like ****, he get's torn a new one from X know-it-alls in the audience. And maybe even the band.

Trust the techs, or bring your own/do it yourselves. They're only trying to do what's best for both of you.

 

[fokof]

Bass players buy 1000 watts amps and 8/10's , pay a fortune for it so they want their money's worth ; all the way up !

Being conscious of the stage level is something that comes with maturity.

 

[VegaV77]

i havent had a sound guy too bad ever before


if im too loud he puts me down on the mix not my amp

u might have been cliping the mic or something idk

either way he should have told U to turn it down, not turn it down himself

 

[Toshiro]

So you'd prefer your band to sound like **** for the rest of the evening?
I'd rather have the soundman come up and make a small adjustment to my amp during a song for the sake of a better FOH mix, ESPECIALLY if I'm playing a rented/borrowed amp I'm not comfortable with, than hearing from people afterwards that we sounded horrible...
A resident soundguy, at least a good one, knows what works in a venue and what doesn't. Trust him.

All you people in the "kill/mail/severely injure-whoever-touches-my-gear-group" needs to chill out.
And why is it so bad btw?
Is it an ego thing when someone gives you the impression they know more about what works and what doesn't? Or do you think he's gonna break it? Or do you want to get married before you let someone fiddle your knob(s)?

Try to see it from the soundman's point of view. If the band sounds awesome they get praise, if the band sounds like ****, he get's torn a new one from X know-it-alls in the audience. And maybe even the band.

Trust the techs, or bring your own/do it yourselves. They're only trying to do what's best for both of you.

Don't cop an attitude, sparky. :scowl:

Did you miss the smiley face on the end of my last sentence or did just ignore it on your way to rantsville?

For every really good sound person, there are a dozen knob twiddlers who really don't know how to make a good mix. "trust the techs" on goes so far, IMO.

I've mixed bands and I have a pretty good idea of what sounds good and what doesn't. And if I need to hear FoH, I'll walk out there and listen thanks to the miracle of wireless.

Granted we're hearing one side of the story, but if I were mixing, I'd have a discussion with the band and tell them what to expect so that if I had to fix something on stage, it wouldn't be a surprise when it happens.

And lastly, if it's my rig, it's my rules. Period. Nobody should be fooling with it unless it's been worked out ahead of time.

BTW, nobody wants to sound bad, so you can stow that strawman.

 

[rarbass]

He had tried that already.

I have a friend with one of those SWR Red Head 2-10 combos. At one of his gigs, he kept turning up his rig and complaining he couldn't hear it. Well, his sound, out in the room, was punching everyone in the face and he was destroying the mix. That night, I played rude sound guy and turned his amp down for him. Guess what... The people started dancing and smiling.

Moral? Let the sound man do his job.

+1, as much as I wouldn't like being turned down, it's probably necessary.

I could see if some drunk guy who WASN'T the sound guy walked onto the stage and turned me down just to be stupid. Then he'd be...well, off the stage rather quickly.

 

[hbarcat]

So, in conclusion:

1) Bass amp too loud on stage -------> entire mix (house and stage) is fouled up beyond repair

2) Sound guy does everything in his power to get bass turned down so proper mix can be established but bass player refuses ------> entire mix (house and stage) stays fouled up beyond repair

3) It's obviously the sound guy's fault because he has a magic "fix bass too loud on stage" knob on his board that he doesn't know how to use.

 

[Tbirdbassist]

^^^Did you even... no, nevermind.

 

[dinghy]

at least it wasnt some random person who just walked up to my meticulously dialed 8 band eq and basically made a \ with it... all bass, no treble. was jamming after school and random kid thinks he can screw with my ****. later he borrowed a guitar and 5 seconds into his ****** overdistorted wanking my friend goes over and turns off the amp.

"why'd you do that???"

"because you suck, a lot."

sometimes thats all that needs to be said.

 

[whitedk57]

I worked sound at a fairly large church (not a mega-church though). The MoM was fairly demanding and wanting his monitoring pretty loud. There were a couple other sound guys that I would work with from time to time, and seemed to always be very critical of the MoM.

In this story, I find that the sound man and the OP are both at fault. Communication is key to getting along with each other. The sound man demands that he turn down (without explanation), while the OP can't hear himself (and turns up anyway). Obviously, it can get stressful setting up for a show, and especially between sets, but if each communicates his needs, they can work it out.

SG: You need to turn down.
Bassist: I can't hear myself now.
SG: Try this....
Bassist: Nope, still can't hear myself.
SG: Hold on, let me do this...
Bassist: OK, that's better.

You know, something like that.

 

[Montsegour]

Ofcourse =P

 

[fastplant]

It's a tough call when the sound guy asks you to turn down. There's many clubs I've played where the sound guy is clueless. He'll keep making me turn down to the point I can't even tell if my amp is on anymore, so I'll jump down into the crowd and guess what? There's no trace of bass sound in the main mix either. I don't get some sound guys.

Honestly, alot of times you're better off just pretending to turn down when the sound guy asks you to. You can usually spot a clueless sound guy a mile away. If one of them asks you to turn down. Go to your amp and pretend to turn it down. 9 times out of 10 he'll tell you it sounds way better now.

 

[fastplant]

Judging from my journeys through various music stores, many of us enjoy a _LOT_ of low end in their tone. Too much really. Having trouble hearing yourself? Dial back the low end and boost the mids. Sometimes playing big, boomy, hollow stages? Pick up an Auralex Gramma. And try to get the rest of your band to turn down.

KO

Very true. Alot of times when the sound guy says you're too loud, he really means your low end is too loud. Try just backing off the low end of your EQ instead of turning the volume lower.

I usually keep my extreme low end down pretty far knowing that I'll be going through two or four 18" subs anyway. My cabs are basically stage monitors for the most part.