Soundman and play bass ?

[fokof]

Who's wearing both shoes?

50% of my earnings comes from bass playing , the other 50 comes from being soundman , studio tech , technical director.

I do both and I think it's an advantage because when I mix a band ( I mostly do FOH but sometimes have to do monitors also ) I know what the musiciens want and how a song is constructed.

Curious to know if there is a lot of bass player with both roles.

Comments , stories.....

 

[Stumbo]

I have done both. Getting the FOH/monitors set properly is made a lot easier with my playing experience. Assisting the musicians with their "sound" is also easier because they knew I also played.

 

[fokof]

I have done both. Getting the FOH/monitors set properly is made a lot easier with my playing experience. Assisting the musicians with their "sound" is also easier because they knew I also played.

Do you tell them right away that you're also a musicians ?


You know what , I had problems with that , when I started doin' sound (20 years ago , few.... ) I was telling them stuff like ,
- man , I also play bass ,
-..... your G string is sligtly flat ,
- that first chord in the "Peg" intro is a G6/9 ,
-and the like..... and realized that didn't build a good relation.
It made them either scared , or made me look like an A** H***
So now I either don't tell them at all , or if it comes down to the subject , I'll say it

When I gig as a bass player and have a soundman with that attitude , I have a little smile

Gosh , I'm old.....

 

[anderbass]

I've always assumed most all soundmen were also musicians of some sort.

 

[Spikeh]

Hehe, I thought this was about being a FOH engineer at the same time as playing bass, which I've done, with the aid of my NADY wireless. THAT was a strange gig, heh ;P

But yeah, I've been in the situation. As long as you don't encroach on the band's ego, I've generally found it alright to give limited advice. When I'm a sound guy, I ONLY give advice in reference to the gear I'm in charge of. I'd never tell them that they're out of tune or their tone sucks etc... well, at least until afterwards and we're having a beer and they ask an opinion That's kind of the "safe" time, the only time you can be critical without them taking offence ;P

The amount of guitarists I've spoken to who've had a go at sound engineers in the past because they've told them their tone sucks is ridiculous... the only thing I get involved with is volumes

If a band totally sucks arse, I don't talk to them unless they come to talk to me. No-one wants to be told they suck, and I can't lie. If they do really well, I'm immediately on stage congratulating them, but no sucking up with it... just a "Good gig guys, thoroughly enjoyed that! Looking forward to having you again" etc.

You can't be condecending, and you can't be overpowering or a know-it-all... I've gained a lot of respect from being quite confident, but careful around musicians.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

mixing is the majority of my income, grew into it out of a career as a player. always looked at it as helping bands to sound good.
funny, if you read through the forum, the majority of posts will be very negative toward engineers. i just can't see getting into it unless you have a real desire to help people, especially when there is such a "gloves off"
attitude in general. a very small percentage of engineers are being compensated in any way that is actually worthwhile, besides the satisfaction of supporting the arts.
imho the best engineers always play as well, it's just another branch of the same medium, really. notes are certain frequencies, you have to have frequency recognition to be able to tune an audio system, just like tuning on pitch on an instrument. you have to be able to not only hear each individual aspect of a mix, but also how it works in context with the entire group. for me, mixing with a great band is like conducting a certain aspect of the experience... and when doing dub/electronics mixing is an all out performance with the band. working with more extreme effects and processing while maintaining a focus on the music and having interplay with the band basically turns the console into an instrument.
working with an inexperienced band, more often than not, is like being a referee.
i will say, easy or difficult experiences, working as an engineer has definitely done more for my bass playing in recent years than wood shedding modes for the millionth time.

 

[fokof]

imho the best engineers always play as well, it's just another branch of the same medium, really. notes are certain frequencies, you have to have frequency recognition to be able to tune an audio system, just like tuning on pitch on an instrument. you have to be able to not only hear each individual aspect of a mix, but also how it works in context with the entire group.

A lot of sound guys around here comes from audio/technical/electronic schools . Those guy are great at repairing stuff , head PA tech , etc...but when it comes to mixing , a guy with a musical bacground has an edge I think too. That's why I think I work a lot around here!

i will say, easy or difficult experiences, working as an engineer has definitely done more for my bass playing in recent years than wood shedding modes for the millionth time.

+10000000 !!!!!!
When you mix bands , you see how important arangements are.
Mixing changed a lot of things for me , overplaying-wise , tone wise , etc....
Makes you a better musician , and playing makes you a better soundman

funny, if you read through the forum, the majority of posts will be very negative toward engineers. i just can't see getting into it unless you have a real desire to help people, especially when there is such a "gloves off"
attitude in general. a very small percentage of engineers are being compensated in any way that is actually worthwhile, besides the satisfaction of supporting the arts.

Pretty much a question of experience IMHO

 

[D.A.R.K.]

yeah, lack of experience does play a role, but it is probably a bad idea to walk into any situation where you have none and immediately cop a negative attitude as a starting point. seems quite counter productive.

 

[mrokern]

Yup! I used to be on the road mixing full-time, but even now I still make more $$$ from mixing than I do from playing.

I don't critique other bassists while I'm mixing, and I don't tell other engineers how to do their jobs when I'm playing beyond my monitor requests. When I'm wearing one hat, the other one is packed up.

-Mark

 

[bassman1185]

My day job is being a rental tech for an A/V company, so I do a bit of live sound. Most of our jobs are corperate, events though.

 

[fokof]

When I'm wearing one hat, the other one is packed up.

 

[knarleybass]

I do it in my cover band, it's pretty easy, I just make the vocals nice and loud.

 

[Spikeh]

I do it in my cover band, it's pretty easy, I just make the vocals nice and loud.

Hah... if only it was that easy

 

[nicoli]

I do both.

A few years back when I decided to make a go of the whole music as career thing, I figured I'd make more money teching than playing, and thought at the very least I'd need to double to make ends meet. Went to a recording school for a year, and learned a ton about electronics, acoustics, gear, and mixing. Immediately after graduation I fell into playing almost full time and ended up making more money that way than teching, but the ability to do both has been invaluable.

Not only does playing help your mixing, but being on stage or in studio knowing what the guy running the board has to deal with is also very helpful.

 

[lowendisthebest]

i do both. never been to school but i guess i have a good ear for it havent gotten fired. the only prob i have with the musicians is that they ask you to turn them up in their monitor but they're already really loud out on the floor. it really messes with the mix

 

[fokof]

i do both. never been to school but i guess i have a good ear for it havent gotten fired. the only prob i have with the musicians is that they ask you to turn them up in their monitor but they're already really loud out on the floor. it really messes with the mix

That's the biggest problem with mixing in small/medium places. And realizing as a musician that stage level is as important as performance comes with experience.

I always have a little smile when I see in the "Amp forum" guys saying they bring their 2/18" @ 1000 watts amp in a club. I have a small thought for the soundude there , that night.

 

[GregShadoan]

I do both, but I make my living doing sound. Play just for fun now. 35 years playing, 25 years mixing sound.

 

[JKT]

In my band I am the designated "soundman"

I wire it up, set up the mix, do the monitors, and tweak when I can. It's always just some variation of 2 speakers on a stick plus or minus a sub. Beyond vocals, other things sometimes go in based on venue and PA size. Usually kick drum, then bass, then sometimes a little guitar. After that it would be the singers harp and keyboard rig and finally a bigger drum mix.

Every once in a blue moon we'll find ouselves with the small PA in a larger then ordinary setting. If I'm running 2 cabs I have the ability to submix the kick drum into my bass rig. Not a ton, but a little actually works great.

JKT

 

[L.A. Moore]

I run sound part time for bands / shows.

And run sound full time in my band as well as play bass. I almost always get a decent mix but the stress of it all kills me. Soon we'll be able to afford a sound man then I can just sit back and play. Another reason I want a sound man is to add the delay's and run a the light show during the performance.

I go out and do a sound check (wireless) and tighten the mix during the first couple songs. The biggest problem I have is setting my vocal mic. Now I have the guitar player go out 3 or 4 songs in where I do backups and adjust it.

 

[fokof]

I go out and do a sound check (wireless) and tighten the mix during the first couple songs. The biggest problem I have is setting my vocal mic. Now I have the guitar player go out 3 or 4 songs in where I do backups and adjust it.

It must be strange for the public to see a musician goin down in the room while the show started !

When I mix while playing , I check the FOH with headphones/IE.