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Soundman insist on me going direct

One good thing about making the band happy is that you probably get a better performance. A good stage sound is pretty important too, and if some sound that you don't identify as you is coming out the monitors it won't help. Granted, sometimes compromises are required due to strange standing waves on some stages meaning less low end through monitors, or other complications.
 
Agreed with #1 to an extent, but #2 is fine for you but maybe not fine for someone else. Certainly wouldn't be fine for me, that's for sure. And I get plenty of gigs with the "schmutz" over the last 40 years, too.

I wish bass players would stop this "This is how I do it, so you should do it that way, too" attitude. We're not all alike, and we shouldn't be, nor should we have to. And doggone it, we should all be way more supportive of people who like to do things differently instead of siding with soundmen who are clearly looking to make their jobs easier.

The exception, of course, being when someone wants to use an Impulse Response (IR) loader direct feed as a replacement for mic'ing a bass cab. LOL. j/k, JimmyM. ;-)
 
I don't care what any of you do. :)
I am glad that for myself, I use no effects (a little compression) and a DI is fine. All my stuff (tuner/comp/Rolls IEM amp/JDI) is on a Pedal Train Nano and set up couldn't be easier.
I just play at church so it's the same sound every gig. Not like you guys that travel. Still, I'd be fine traveling with my Nano board.

Since I don't travel, I should get the church to buy me (well, all the other bass players, too) a REDDI to leave for all of us to use.
 
I wish bass players would stop this "This is how I do it, so you should do it that way, too" attitude. We're not all alike, and we shouldn't be, nor should we have to. And doggone it, we should all be way more supportive of people who like to do things differently instead of siding with soundmen who are clearly looking to make their jobs easier.

+1000

I find that it's the people who want to keep it simple that get upset with others who are trying to push the envelope. I never hear anyone who wants to push the envelope busting on the guys that want to keep it simple.
 
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Oh, Goodie! My post got a lot of reaction. Vive la différence!

1) Personal tone and development of personal style is the #1 priority unless a person wants to do nothing but play piano bar the rest of his gigging days. Congrats to those looking for individual tone, and experimenting with the state of the technology art to find it and keep pushing that envelope.

2) Yes, most sound men should be doing something else for a living. I am privileged with my current band to work with a guy who knows me and my playing and makes me sound the best. He is literally one in a million.

3) There is something to be said for the proposition that in a live setting, especially in a large venue, subtleties can get lost, even with the best of sound men.

4) I encourage all players that, in developing their own tone, to search out the highest quality effects with the best fidelity and lowest noise floor so any below the floor noise, distortion, or other unwanted artifacts are at a minimum. I save my favorite vintage effects for the studio where the noise can be eq'd out, and because if they get damaged on stage they cannot be replaced. If a person does use effects, I am a proponent of using the digital emulations in a live setting. Hell, when I played guitar in a band 20 years ago, I wouldn't take my Rick 12 on stage, even though it "made" the song my old band wrote - I used a Boss CE-2 chorus and cranked the treble instead, and saved the Rick 12 for the recording. Now, I would use a digital emulation to save both the Rick 12 and my Boss CE-2.

5) On the rare occasion anymore I play guitar, I either go direct, or use a Line 6 POD 2.0, which is the same as using a SansAmp or other similar effect, so I do understand. What I will say about that is any sound man who criticizes the use of a SansAmp has not mixed mic'd live cabs with all the cross talk and feedback issues, or worse, is not old enough to remember when the only way to be heard in a large venue was with an Ampeg SVT with two 8X10 cabs, before the development of modern PA equipment.

Epilogue: yes, the sound man should be accomodating of a player's personal style. But more often than not, he won't, and the bass player will be lucky to either just be heard, or be over-eq'd to all thump, all the time. So the real purpose of my post is to encourage everyone to be flexible, and not get too bent out of shape when, due to the sound man, and in spite of the player's best efforts, all that comes across is thump. After all, would you rather gig, or be pissed at the soundman and do nothing? With that said, I do encourage all players to work on clean, fundamental, traditional technique and tone, because it does have a place so that when a player takes off on an original composition with the player's style or effects it actually will be noticed and appreciated for what it is.
 
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The exception, of course, being when someone wants to use an Impulse Response (IR) loader direct feed as a replacement for mic'ing a bass cab. LOL. j/k, JimmyM. ;-)
Well hey, that's just crazy talk ;)

Actually, I do expect that kind of stuff to best current methods eventually, and one day it may even best tube amps. Today ain't the day, though.

And iiipopes, why can't we gig AND be pissed at the soundman? ;)
 
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It sounds like we have a lot of lazy soundman apologists in here. I don't use much in terms of fx, but if I use an autowah and you take that away, the entire song changes, not just the bass line. Screw that sound guy. If he can't figure out how to reinforce me post fx, he's a chump.

No, I think the chumps are you guys that think most sound guys want your signal pre-effects. I haven't read that here, just you guys ranting about sound guys not wanting your FX. Figure out the difference in pre- and post-FX. I've met thousands of sound guys and even the most inept ones are smart enough to want the bass signal post-fx, dammit all. I'm sure they exist, but if I haven't seen one in MS, AL, or LA (Louisiana, for crying out loud), where can they be?

As for your idiotic apologists comment, pal, just remember that crapola runs both ways. Walk a mile, dude, walk a mile. I really don't have a dog in the hunt, but grow up with the comments already.

I wish the argument could be renamed "Line vs Mic" instead of DI. Oh, hell no, we'd find a way to fight needlessly over that, too...
 
I'll be happy to send you a list of names, Geri! I can think of two right off the top of my head...this dude named Frenchy in So. Florida who handed me a Radial and told me to input the bass before any effects. I showed him my REDDI and he became hypnotized and quickly abandoned that idea. Funny how no soundman can resist a new shiny object ;)

And there was a dude a few years ago at a place The Club in Vegas who argued with me for 10 minutes because I wanted to run my Countryman DI from the speaker out of the SVT-CL they provided for me because I was "going to blow up something." He lost that battle eventually because I told him it was all plugged up and nothing bad is happening to any of the gear, then I said, "Trust me...you'll love it." And he did.

And 4 out of 5 gigs with an unfamiliar soundman resulted in an argument about me wanting to use my Heil PR40 instead of a SS DI. That's why I finally got a REDDI...I figured it would shut them up and I'd still be happy. Happy to report it's worked out that way.
 
Not trying to be an apologist for the soundman - good or bad. But:

1. I don't like the idea of trying to sneak something past him. If something goes ((poof)), regardless of whether or not what you did had anything to do with it, you will get blamed.
2. I am not on the level of many of you, but I don't want to p!ss off the guy who has his hands on the faders, and can make my sound disappear from the mix, or sound like cr@p intentionally. I always want him smiling after talking with me if possible.
 
No, I think the chumps are you guys that think most sound guys want your signal pre-effects. I haven't read that here, just you guys ranting about sound guys not wanting your FX. Figure out the difference in pre- and post-FX. I've met thousands of sound guys and even the most inept ones are smart enough to want the bass signal post-fx, dammit all. I'm sure they exist, but if I haven't seen one in MS, AL, or LA (Louisiana, for crying out loud), where can they be?

As for your idiotic apologists comment, pal, just remember that crapola runs both ways. Walk a mile, dude, walk a mile. I really don't have a dog in the hunt, but grow up with the comments already.

I wish the argument could be renamed "Line vs Mic" instead of DI. Oh, hell no, we'd find a way to fight needlessly over that, too...

For someone without a dog in the hunt, you sure got your panties in a knot! Check the title of the site - TalkBASS, not TalkSOUND.
 
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Sounding good through a bare-bones direct box is a useful skill that you can choose to either learn or not learn. If you choose to learn the skill, there is a good probability it will serve you well at least once in your playing career (for example when your amp dies on the gig). Many players historically have landed good gigs or appeared on hit recordings because they had the specific skill of sounding good through a DI. More skills = more work.
 
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And iiipopes, why can't we gig AND be pissed at the soundman? ;)
Speaking just for myself, it is too distracting, especially after two beers and two sets, if you know what I mean.

Pre versus post EQ? All I know is the last television special I played for, the sound engineer, with network broadcast TV credentials, asked me for pre-eq so he could EQ and compress it properly for TV broadcast bandwidth. I said thank you. Now, the requirements for live sound aren't necessarily the same as for broadcast sound, but the bottom line after seeing the above, um, er, "dialogue," is to get to know the sound man up front so the player can interact accordingly.
 
Sounding good through a bare-bones direct box is a useful skill that you can choose to either learn or not learn. If you choose to learn the skill, there is a good probability it will serve you well at least once in your playing career. Many players historically have landed good gigs or appeared on hit recordings because they had the specific skill of sounding good through a DI. More skills = more work.
Indeed. Everyone thinks Jamerson used an Ampeg popup. But that was just for live gigs. He was direct in the studio through one of the first DI consoles ever used. I wouldn't call his tone "common."