source audio c4

[Chalotrejo]

The c4 recreates a euro rack modular synth experience in a small pedal. There are 500+ parameters to control. An app is the most effective way we know to present a modular synth experience in a pedal. A small screen and menus cant do it. 500 knobs cant do it. Perhaps we should ship c4s preloaded with the top 128 community presets.

We are continuing to improve the app. A new c4 editor is in the works.

There is a new MXR Bass Synth that (cleverly) address many of the apparent difficulties found in more complex systems like the C4 and the Future Impact (I have both), and gives instant access to sought after bass synth sounds. Most people are not familiar with the EuroRack concept, as complete as it might be, or do not have experience with real synths, so they can have trouble connecting the dots on the app to create the sounds they have in their heads, or replicate some existing synth sounds to use. It might be good for the C4 community to have an in-depth video on creating "popular" synth bass sounds, so users can see "what part do what" to the sound, and fall in love again with their C4s. The available videos are like "tips" or good demos (thanks Zachary and Nate) but lacking really on how to create useful or gig-worthy synth sounds. I believe that the C4 is by far a more powerful unit, but it does have a learning curve, and at risk of being ungrateful, the online community is overwhelmingly vast to pinpoint what you need, and it takes a lot of time to find something close enough to tweak to your liking. Make sense, or am I wishful thinking?

 

[davesbass]

it would be cool if SA had a couple of curated download "preset packs" for bass and guitar for the C4 like they have one for the bass multiwave. to make it easier to get started. you could download a backup file and import 128 of the most useful sounds for guitar or bass....

 

[Rick Penrose]

There is a new MXR Bass Synth that (cleverly) address many of the apparent difficulties found in more complex systems like the C4 and the Future Impact (I have both), and gives instant access to sought after bass synth sounds. Most people are not familiar with the EuroRack concept, as complete as it might be, or do not have experience with real synths, so they can have trouble connecting the dots on the app to create the sounds they have in their heads, or replicate some existing synth sounds to use. It might be good for the C4 community to have an in-depth video on creating "popular" synth bass sounds, so users can see "what part do what" to the sound, and fall in love again with their C4s. The available videos are like "tips" or good demos (thanks Zachary and Nate) but lacking really on how to create useful or gig-worthy synth sounds. I believe that the C4 is by far a more powerful unit, but it does have a learning curve, and at risk of being ungrateful, the online community is overwhelmingly vast to pinpoint what you need, and it takes a lot of time to find something close enough to tweak to your liking. Make sense, or am I wishful thinking?

Spot on!

 

[Rick Penrose]

it would be cool if SA had a couple of curated download "preset packs" for bass and guitar for the C4 like they have one for the bass multiwave. to make it easier to get started. you could download a backup file and import 128 of the most useful sounds for guitar or bass....

Also spot on…its all about the end user experience

 

[LowWay]

@RSmith , You should reach out to Sarah Belle Reid,

Learning Sound and Synthesis

Inside Learning Sound and Synthesis, you'll learn to make music with modular synthesizers and design custom sounds from scratch—creating music you LOVE, even if you have no musical training or equipment

www.soundandsynthesis.com

And work out a deal for putting together a video on synthesis with the C4. Maybe even she could do a course.

 

[rsmith601]

There is a new MXR Bass Synth that (cleverly) address many of the apparent difficulties found in more complex systems like the C4 and the Future Impact (I have both), and gives instant access to sought after bass synth sounds. Most people are not familiar with the EuroRack concept, as complete as it might be, or do not have experience with real synths, so they can have trouble connecting the dots on the app to create the sounds they have in their heads, or replicate some existing synth sounds to use. It might be good for the C4 community to have an in-depth video on creating "popular" synth bass sounds, so users can see "what part do what" to the sound, and fall in love again with their C4s. The available videos are like "tips" or good demos (thanks Zachary and Nate) but lacking really on how to create useful or gig-worthy synth sounds. I believe that the C4 is by far a more powerful unit, but it does have a learning curve, and at risk of being ungrateful, the online community is overwhelmingly vast to pinpoint what you need, and it takes a lot of time to find something close enough to tweak to your liking. Make sense, or am I wishful thinking?

The weakness of the MXR approach is there are only a small handful of sound designers creating sounds on that platform. We know all about these limitations, because that is what we lived with prior to Neuro. It takes 20+ expert sound designers to cover all the sounds. There are hundreds creating on the C4. No pedal company has those resources. There are now 4000 searchable presets for the C4. You are right, not everyone is going to do synthesis. However, anyone who is reading this has the chops to browse the presets from the Neuro community and burn them to the pedal. Unless I am missing something, the MXR approach will never match this.

@davesbass - OMG I cant believe you mentioned preset packs!!! Guess what is new to Neuro??? Preset packs. We are going to have lots of C4 ones. I dont know if the Desktop has it yet, but my phone just got Packs this morning. Agreed. Preset packs are just what we needed for the C4.

 

[Chalotrejo]

The weakness of the MXR approach is there are only a small handful of sound designers creating sounds on that platform. We know all about these limitations, because that is what we lived with prior to Neuro. It takes 20+ expert sound designers to cover all the sounds. There are hundreds creating on the C4. No pedal company has those resources. There are now 4000 searchable presets for the C4. You are right, not everyone is going to do synthesis. However, anyone who is reading this has the chops to browse the presets from the Neuro community and burn them to the pedal. Unless I am missing something, the MXR approach will never match this.

@davesbass - OMG I cant believe you mentioned preset packs!!! Guess what is new to Neuro??? Preset packs. We are going to have lots of C4 ones. I dont know if the Desktop has it yet, but my phone just got Packs this morning. Agreed. Preset packs are just what we needed for the C4.

Yes, haven't tried the MXR thing, it's just that it seems unfair that the MXR sponsored marketing hype talks trash about "other units" that seem difficult to use. I'll try the preset packs, but I'm sure that a cool video on programming the unit will be an asset to users, and for possible new users.

 

[Jay Power]

The weakness of the MXR approach is there are only a small handful of sound designers creating sounds on that platform. We know all about these limitations, because that is what we lived with prior to Neuro. It takes 20+ expert sound designers to cover all the sounds. There are hundreds creating on the C4. No pedal company has those resources. There are now 4000 searchable presets for the C4. You are right, not everyone is going to do synthesis. However, anyone who is reading this has the chops to browse the presets from the Neuro community and burn them to the pedal. Unless I am missing something, the MXR approach will never match this.

@davesbass - OMG I cant believe you mentioned preset packs!!! Guess what is new to Neuro??? Preset packs. We are going to have lots of C4 ones. I dont know if the Desktop has it yet, but my phone just got Packs this morning. Agreed. Preset packs are just what we needed for the C4.

Presets packs are a great addition to Neuro. How they’ve integrated into the mobile app looks slick. Well done to the design team!

Really like the idea of the Essentials series and packs based on themes. It would be great to have preset packs based on genre, decade or even artist. A Stevie Wonder preset pack for the C4 and Artifackt or an 80’s Essentials Pack as examples.

 

[rsmith601]

Presets packs are a great addition to Neuro. How they’ve integrated into the mobile app looks slick. Well done to the design team!

Really like the idea of the Essentials series and packs based on themes. It would be great to have preset packs based on genre, decade or even artist. A Stevie Wonder preset pack for the C4 and Artifackt or an 80’s Essentials Pack as examples.

That is exactly what is coming very soon!!

 

[bassbrad]

@RSmith , You should reach out to Sarah Belle Reid,

Learning Sound and Synthesis

Inside Learning Sound and Synthesis, you'll learn to make music with modular synthesizers and design custom sounds from scratch—creating music you LOVE, even if you have no musical training or equipment

www.soundandsynthesis.com

And work out a deal for putting together a video on synthesis with the C4. Maybe even she could do a course.

I learned a lot taking her free course on 1st modular synth patch that covers basic synth functions that can unlock the C4, FI and other synth pedal possibilities.

VCV Rack 2 is a fun and free way to discover the realm of modular synth creation that Sarah uses in her courses.

 

[sunbeast]

Yes, haven't tried the MXR thing, it's just that it seems unfair that the MXR sponsored marketing hype talks trash about "other units" that seem difficult to use. I'll try the preset packs, but I'm sure that a cool video on programming the unit will be an asset to users, and for possible new users.

Is it really “unfairly talking trash” for a new product to be marketed by differentiating its features from its competitors? I own the MXR, the Future Impact and the C4 and to me it isn’t controversial at all to suggest that the MXR is the easiest and least-frustrating to dial in- it doesn’t require any external app or device to tweak any of its parameters, they are all tweakable via the knobs and switches on the face of the pedal.

The trade-off is that the C4 and Future Impact are both far more powerful/capable than the MXR, each with a ton more tweakable parameters- the MXR is able to offer full onboard hardware editing because it offers far less sound options. I think the MXR is wise for someone who wants the simplest way to get solid but basic synth tones triggered by a bass and has an aversion to tweaking an external app to get there- from my years around Talkbass I know there are a lot of people who fit that description! For those willing to invest more time into tweaking to get more sophisticated sounds (and not needing direct hardware control of all parameters), the C4 and Future Impact will be more rewarding and capable. For me personally there are uses for all of them- the MXR has already been living in my gig-bag as an option for on the spot sound experimentation. It is fast enough to dial in that I can literally create a new sound in the middle of a jam without ruining the vibe. I used to do that with the C4 hooked up to my iPhone sometimes, but ultimately the app was unreliable at times and even when it was working it would take a lot longer to dial in unless I was starting from a preset that was already very close. The Future Impact would be impossible to build patches from scratch for unless I had a laptop and MIDI interface on hand (which I never do), though there is a much more powerful hardware editing interface onboard the FI for a lot of the basics than the C4 so if I had a preset that is close then I can probably get the last 10% without the computer and not too much time invested.

Of course they all sound and react/track differently too even with similar sounds dialed in (the same as any keyboard synths from different companies all sound somewhat different, in this case there is also the added variable of tracking to contend with).

I do agree that the MXR preset sounds were pretty decently curated which is another big plus- I have had to dig pretty deep with the C4 to find a lot of sounds that were as useable without significant tweaking (and yes I almost always start by filtering by popularity!). One of the downsides to relying on user preset databases is that most of the sounds out there are inevitably not going to be useful for most people (either because the rigs are so different, sounds are too niche, the sounds just aren't very good, or various other reasons). The Future Impact stock presets are also pretty well curated IMO though the database of user presets is much smaller than the C4 and significantly harder to demo.

 

[tonym]

Looks like @rsmith601 's "soon" is actually now. The Preset Packs just dropped in the Neuro update. Nice implementation.

 

[Rick Penrose]

Is it really “unfairly talking trash” for a new product to be marketed by differentiating its features from its competitors? I own the MXR, the Future Impact and the C4 and to me it isn’t controversial at all to suggest that the MXR is the easiest and least-frustrating to dial in- it doesn’t require any external app or device to tweak any of its parameters, they are all tweakable via the knobs and switches on the face of the pedal.

The trade-off is that the C4 and Future Impact are both far more powerful/capable than the MXR, each with a ton more tweakable parameters- the MXR is able to offer full onboard hardware editing because it offers far less sound options. I think the MXR is wise for someone who wants the simplest way to get solid but basic synth tones triggered by a bass and has an aversion to tweaking an external app to get there- from my years around Talkbass I know there are a lot of people who fit that description! For those willing to invest more time into tweaking to get more sophisticated sounds (and not needing direct hardware control of all parameters), the C4 and Future Impact will be more rewarding and capable. For me personally there are uses for all of them- the MXR has already been living in my gig-bag as an option for on the spot sound experimentation. It is fast enough to dial in that I can literally create a new sound in the middle of a jam without ruining the vibe. I used to do that with the C4 hooked up to my iPhone sometimes, but ultimately the app was unreliable at times and even when it was working it would take a lot longer to dial in unless I was starting from a preset that was already very close. The Future Impact would be impossible to build patches from scratch for unless I had a laptop and MIDI interface on hand (which I never do), though there is a much more powerful hardware editing interface onboard the FI for a lot of the basics than the C4 so if I had a preset that is close then I can probably get the last 10% without the computer and not too much time invested.

Of course they all sound and react/track differently too even with similar sounds dialed in (the same as any keyboard synths from different companies all sound somewhat different, in this case there is also the added variable of tracking to contend with).

I do agree that the MXR preset sounds were pretty decently curated which is another big plus- I have had to dig pretty deep with the C4 to find a lot of sounds that were as useable without significant tweaking (and yes I almost always start by filtering by popularity!). One of the downsides to relying on user preset databases is that most of the sounds out there are inevitably not going to be useful for most people (either because the rigs are so different, sounds are too niche, the sounds just aren't very good, or various other reasons). The Future Impact stock presets are also pretty well curated IMO though the database of user presets is much smaller than the C4 and significantly harder to demo.

Personal preference here. I have never found the neuro app unrealiable. I get that there may be too many options for the c4 that would lead one to believe that it is not gigable but I do not feel that is accurate. The SA ecosystem is complex but really provides amazing capabilities. Spend some time and it will yield dividends. Anyway at the end of the day what pedal today does not have an app or computer interface. You might as well future proof your pedal board. I really appreciate and recognize the learning curve of SA stuff but I feel that it is totally worth it.

 

[sunbeast]

Personal preference here. I have never found the neuro app unrealiable. I get that there may be too many options for the c4 that would lead one to believe that it is not gigable but I do not feel that is accurate. The SA ecosystem is complex but really provides amazing capabilities. Spend some time and it will yield dividends. Anyway at the end of the day what pedal today does not have an app or computer interface. You might as well future proof your pedal board. I really appreciate and recognize the learning curve of SA stuff but I feel that it is totally worth it.

Most pedals today do not utilize apps/computers. I understand the reasoning for doing so with something as deep as a synth, as the hardware UI to make all the parameters from a C4 adjustable without an app would almost certainly require a screen which would add a lot of cost and presumably processing power. That said, just read through Talkbass in reference to the C4 and the app for editing and need for external pedals to access presets are 100% the main critiques. I also never called the C4 ungiggable- I’ve gigged with mine. My remarks were about trying to build presets on the fly, which is often impractical unless you are working alone or building off an existing preset.

You are fortunate to have not had issues with the mobile app either- I had mine become finicky or unusable multiple times after phone or app updates to the point that I gave up on the phone app and on the fly editing completely

 

[Rick Penrose]

Most pedals today do not utilize apps/computers. I understand the reasoning for doing so with something as deep as a synth, as the hardware UI to make all the parameters from a C4 adjustable without an app would almost certainly require a screen which would add a lot of cost and presumably processing power. That said, just read through Talkbass in reference to the C4 and the app for editing and need for external pedals to access presets are 100% the main critiques. I also never called the C4 ungiggable- I’ve gigged with mine. My remarks were about trying to build presets on the fly, which is often impractical unless you are working alone or building off an existing preset.

You are fortunate to have not had issues with the mobile app either- I had mine become finicky or unusable multiple times after phone or app updates to the point that I gave up on the phone app and on the fly editing completely

I agree that building a preset from scratch while gigging would be a challenge using the app....re the neuro app...I use the PC version not mobile, so I can’t speak to the stability of the iOS app. My approach has been to setup the pedal in advance of playing so the only thing I need to change while playing are the presets. Some tweaking is possible using the knobs but I try to keep that to a minimum. Just a different approach when compared to analog pedals (which I have many and really enjoy using as well).

 

[rsmith601]

Most pedals today do not utilize apps/computers. I understand the reasoning for doing so with something as deep as a synth, as the hardware UI to make all the parameters from a C4 adjustable without an app would almost certainly require a screen which would add a lot of cost and presumably processing power. That said, just read through Talkbass in reference to the C4 and the app for editing and need for external pedals to access presets are 100% the main critiques. I also never called the C4 ungiggable- I’ve gigged with mine. My remarks were about trying to build presets on the fly, which is often impractical unless you are working alone or building off an existing preset.

You are fortunate to have not had issues with the mobile app either- I had mine become finicky or unusable multiple times after phone or app updates to the point that I gave up on the phone app and on the fly editing completely

Why Neuro Will Always Be a Companion

Even when Source Audio releases pedals with screens and menus, there will always be a Neuro companion. Why? Because Neuro makes any pedal dramatically more flexible and powerful.

Pedal-sized screens and their limited graphics processors create a poor user experience compared to what’s possible on a high-resolution phone or computer. If pedals had an iPhone-level interface, they would cost at least $1,000 more—simply unrealistic given the relatively low volume of pedals versus smartphones. Beyond that, phones and computers connect to the internet, which opens the door to cloud-based libraries, personal backups, and a global exchange of presets. If the MXR pedal had an app, it would be better than it is without one.

On-the-Fly Sound Creation
You raise an interesting point about live editing. The C4 is admittedly not strong here. But with Bluetooth and a screen, we will improve that experience significantly.

The Source Audio Journey
From the start, Source Audio and this community pioneered the use of phones and computers to unlock the full potential of pedals. Looking back:

• We started with iPhone only, one-direction communication.
• We added Android, Windows, and Mac.
• We introduced bi-directional control, backups, and firmware updates.
• We enabled searching and sorting community presets, building personal libraries, and supporting pedals with 1,000+ parameters—something no pedal with screen can touch.
• We created creator profiles, following, likes, and comments.
• We added SoundCheck: playback of presets, and even playback while adjusting parameters (preset creation without a pedal).
• We released curated preset packs this week.

Coming soon: a completely overhauled C4 editor—simpler, more intuitive, and even more powerful.

Where We Stand
Our mission is clear:

• Deliver a stand-alone pedal experience as good or better than the competition.
• Invest heavily in the app experience. We have invested at levels 10X greater than anyone else in this industry for more than a decade. I don't think any of other pedal company can catch us at this point.

Probably more than anyone wants to know, but I always like to be clear about what we are doing and why!

 

[Chalotrejo]

Is it really “unfairly talking trash” for a new product to be marketed by differentiating its features from its competitors? I own the MXR, the Future Impact and the C4 and to me it isn’t controversial at all to suggest that the MXR is the easiest and least-frustrating to dial in- it doesn’t require any external app or device to tweak any of its parameters, they are all tweakable via the knobs and switches on the face of the pedal.

The trade-off is that the C4 and Future Impact are both far more powerful/capable than the MXR, each with a ton more tweakable parameters- the MXR is able to offer full onboard hardware editing because it offers far less sound options. I think the MXR is wise for someone who wants the simplest way to get solid but basic synth tones triggered by a bass and has an aversion to tweaking an external app to get there- from my years around Talkbass I know there are a lot of people who fit that description! For those willing to invest more time into tweaking to get more sophisticated sounds (and not needing direct hardware control of all parameters), the C4 and Future Impact will be more rewarding and capable. For me personally there are uses for all of them- the MXR has already been living in my gig-bag as an option for on the spot sound experimentation. It is fast enough to dial in that I can literally create a new sound in the middle of a jam without ruining the vibe. I used to do that with the C4 hooked up to my iPhone sometimes, but ultimately the app was unreliable at times and even when it was working it would take a lot longer to dial in unless I was starting from a preset that was already very close. The Future Impact would be impossible to build patches from scratch for unless I had a laptop and MIDI interface on hand (which I never do), though there is a much more powerful hardware editing interface onboard the FI for a lot of the basics than the C4 so if I had a preset that is close then I can probably get the last 10% without the computer and not too much time invested.

Of course they all sound and react/track differently too even with similar sounds dialed in (the same as any keyboard synths from different companies all sound somewhat different, in this case there is also the added variable of tracking to contend with).

I do agree that the MXR preset sounds were pretty decently curated which is another big plus- I have had to dig pretty deep with the C4 to find a lot of sounds that were as useable without significant tweaking (and yes I almost always start by filtering by popularity!). One of the downsides to relying on user preset databases is that most of the sounds out there are inevitably not going to be useful for most people (either because the rigs are so different, sounds are too niche, the sounds just aren't very good, or various other reasons). The Future Impact stock presets are also pretty well curated IMO though the database of user presets is much smaller than the C4 and significantly harder to demo.

I might be biased here, but some reviewers simply didn't even bother to check the Neuro app. They just hated it because it was not a plug-and-dial-a-pedal approach. Personal preference aside, it seems unfair to me. Better not make a review in that case. I think the MXR has a place in the market, seems like a solid unit, but it's somewhat in another ballpark.

 

[bassbrad]

I feel compelled to add to the discussion by saying that there must be a lot of music creators and nerds like myself that appreciate all the wonderful possibilities that the Source Audio brain trust pack into every one of their pedals. Neuro is the absolutely free and unlimited valuable part of every Source Audio purchase as a Source to share my meager creations and benefit from the creativity of others. I will admit that at times Neuro has been confounding to my analog Neanderthal brain but the learning process has been rewarded with broad vistas for sonic improvement and mayhem. That understanding has also made using DAWS and soft synths much more accessible and rewarding.

There are days when plug and play is the name of the game for pure playing pleasure and gigs ~ but there are just as many days I need/want to get under the hood to explore and tinker.

 

[Rick Penrose]

I feel compelled to add to the discussion by saying that there must be a lot of music creators and nerds like myself that appreciate all the wonderful possibilities that the Source Audio brain trust pack into every one of their pedals. Neuro is the absolutely free and unlimited valuable part of every Source Audio purchase as a Source to share my meager creations and benefit from the creativity of others. I will admit that at times Neuro has been confounding to my analog Neanderthal brain but the learning process has been rewarded with broad vistas for sonic improvement and mayhem. That understanding has also made using DAWS and soft synths much more accessible and rewarding.

There are days when plug and play is the name of the game for pure playing pleasure and gigs ~ but there are just as many days I need/want to get under the hood to explore and tinker.

Spot on bassbrad. The SA platform is wide open to support creativity

 

[sunbeast]

I feel compelled to add to the discussion by saying that there must be a lot of music creators and nerds like myself that appreciate all the wonderful possibilities that the Source Audio brain trust pack into every one of their pedals. Neuro is the absolutely free and unlimited valuable part of every Source Audio purchase as a Source to share my meager creations and benefit from the creativity of others. I will admit that at times Neuro has been confounding to my analog Neanderthal brain but the learning process has been rewarded with broad vistas for sonic improvement and mayhem. That understanding has also made using DAWS and soft synths much more accessible and rewarding.

There are days when plug and play is the name of the game for pure playing pleasure and gigs ~ but there are just as many days I need/want to get under the hood to explore and tinker.

Exactly my point- different horses for different courses. For some reason there seems to be an idea that everything must be a binary- I have to love either A or B and can’t enjoy both for their individual strengths while acknowledging that both have their own inherent weaknesses as well. I’m fortunate to not have to choose only one to keep at the moment, but if I did that would be a tough choice for me because I love being able to create new sounds totally on the fly to jam with and I love to go deep with creating sounds. I would have the same issue if I was a synth player, choosing between relatively simple knob-per-function synths like a Moog vs the myriad keyboard synths that have onboard menus, convoluted settings adjustments, and/or software editors.