Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Speaker break-in: myth or reality?
- Thread starter gtirard
- Start date
It’s been a dozen or so years since I’ve bought a new amp , so I cannot recall for sure. I did buy a new pair of Audio Technica headphones about 3 years ago and thought they were “okay” at first, but that they did open the and sound better after about 20 hours 
.
.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,984
- 5
- 220,759
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Have you considered that it was y the speaker that changed but your ears and/or your perception?
I have tested maybe a hundred speakers doing aging testing, and if a speaker performs significantly different after the testing, that’s one of the criteria for failure.
This is both measurement testing and listening testing (comparing aged sample with an out of the box sample). The numbers don’t lie, and the listening tests confirm it.
The criteria between broken in and a virgin sample really is not audible either. That’s the point, to identify damage for warranty and reliability forecasting purposes.
Last edited:
There's a local shop here where it's pretty much a guy in a warehouse surrounded by some of the most fantastically beautiful HIFI equipment I have ever heard ranging from just expensive to almost unobtainable. He has new and used, and has no problem setting up a little studio space with anything you want to hear for as long as you have time for. I buy everything I need for my home stereo from this guy, and although my tastes run a little on the "value" side, I do have some beautiful equipment.
One day he set up a bunch of stuff just to prove to me that spending a few extra hundred on a USB cable can make a difference... I couldn't actually convince myself that I could hear the difference, but what I did hear was some of the most impressively well reproduced audio I had ever experienced. I did buy the expensive one because I really enjoyed myself and appreciated his passion.
He has a setup that keeps speaker wire energized for weeks, running current constantly, and charges people to break in their expensive speaker cables.
I don't necessarily believe anything is worthwhile, but I am never surprised to hear someone will pay for it.
One day he set up a bunch of stuff just to prove to me that spending a few extra hundred on a USB cable can make a difference... I couldn't actually convince myself that I could hear the difference, but what I did hear was some of the most impressively well reproduced audio I had ever experienced. I did buy the expensive one because I really enjoyed myself and appreciated his passion.
He has a setup that keeps speaker wire energized for weeks, running current constantly, and charges people to break in their expensive speaker cables.
I don't necessarily believe anything is worthwhile, but I am never surprised to hear someone will pay for it.
Yeah I’ve definitely noticed changes with guitar speakers but never once with bass amps.
Out of curiosity, and most likely the esteemed Mr @agedhorse would have some knowledge of the matter; how much variation exists between a sampling of individual new speakers from the manufacturer? It seems that there must be at least a miniscule amount, and probably an acceptable upper limit.
Do the real pros go through dozens of fresh drivers before picking out "the one?"
Like: "Oh this one's got extra snake oil!"
Do the real pros go through dozens of fresh drivers before picking out "the one?"
Like: "Oh this one's got extra snake oil!"
I did “break-in” a brand new pair of 10” speakers recently, on stage. I was told “just wait until they’d run for a couple hours, you’ll see!” I guess I got busy playing and forgot to notice the big change - or any at all, for that matter. Good thing I liked them from the very first note 
.
.
i want the answer to this, but i suspect for quality bass speakers with modern manufacturing practices… much less than one might be lead to believe.
For a pro PA house like us, that part of the process, if any, is already done by the speaker cabinet manufacturers (JBL, D&B, Meyer, etc).
We just need a complete speaker rig we can put to work doing shows and events.
We didn’t, for instance, go through all 32 of our brand new JBL A12 cabs and 18 B28 subs to find the “sweet ones”.
Unfortunately, I’ve broken in my ears a little too well over the years and so wouldn’t be able to hear any difference.
I wish I could have done something scientific, controllable or measurable to see if there was a basis for what I was hearing.
I made sure to set up the speaker exactly as it was before the burn in period. Same cabling, all that. Not that I have boutique cables.
Also wondered if factors like the speaker's plastic cabinet played a role.
Or if the burn in period had some sort of effect on the speaker's internal power amp.
In the end, I've got nothing. Just anecdotal impressions.
Having known a few high fidelity freaks over the years who bought in to the audio religion and sit around chatting about things like dark field cable elevators, I'm wary of all that mysticism by nature. Even if I was convinced, I'd never spend crazy money on that gear. $50K turntables etc.
I'm just a bystander without a stake in the game. Ready & willing to believe what the speaker pros & the science say. Also happy to believe my ears.
I’ve never seen a frequency plot and waterfall graph of before, after burn in (before cooling down) and 24hours after burn in ends (and it’s been powered off for 24hours). Which is telling.
I’ve heard plenty of difference in PA due to climate and the speakers being loud for a period (all warmed up, voice coil hot etc etc). And loads of frequency plots to describe the effects of these phenomena.
Also, it’s a brilliant strategy - you may not be impressed now but buy them and invest your time and effort in them and they’ll be better!
I often wonder if people reason: Does the manufacturer design for burn in, do they know the change so can factory test and pass QA at the pre-burn in specs knowing the linear evolution toward the burnt in specs?
Now I think of it… I could produce a range of burn in recordings that a hi-fi person could choose from, like shampoo ‘for glossy highs’ or ‘to strengthen the stage presence’. I could sell them with the green marker pen already applied!
I’ve heard plenty of difference in PA due to climate and the speakers being loud for a period (all warmed up, voice coil hot etc etc). And loads of frequency plots to describe the effects of these phenomena.
Also, it’s a brilliant strategy - you may not be impressed now but buy them and invest your time and effort in them and they’ll be better!
I often wonder if people reason: Does the manufacturer design for burn in, do they know the change so can factory test and pass QA at the pre-burn in specs knowing the linear evolution toward the burnt in specs?
Now I think of it… I could produce a range of burn in recordings that a hi-fi person could choose from, like shampoo ‘for glossy highs’ or ‘to strengthen the stage presence’. I could sell them with the green marker pen already applied!
Last edited:
I'm surprized by this page from Barefaced, I'm pretty sure I've seen Alex being more moderate on that topic.The Barefaced current position on the issue.
Driver break-in
This is a contentious issue with a lot of snake oil and mysticism about it. But it's quite simple really - most pro audio or musical instrument speakers have doped fabric or paper or card suspension. The suspension is the cone surround and the voice coil spider. When brand new this suspension is...barefacedaudio.com
This is a contentious issue with a lot of snake oil and mysticism about it. But it's quite simple really - most pro audio or musical instrument speakers have doped fabric or paper or card suspension. The suspension is the cone surround and the voice coil spider. When brand new this suspension is often stiffer than when the driver has been used well into its working excursion range for a few hours.
If you really want to you can break in the suspension using pink noise or a low frequency sine wave but these methods do have some risk of speaker damage if you don't know what you're doing, so I recommend you just play the cab and don't be surprised if your tone changes a bit in those initial hours.
I like a lot what the video says from 11:30 to 13:20
"It helps managing the customer's expectations and most importantly reduces product returns"
(...)
"1. It gives customer's brain time for that listener's adaptation"
(...)
"2. It fires up their expectation bias"
(...)
"It's not necessarily dishonest, it's a way to guide people through that natural 'getting used to it' period"
-------------
Each time I have received a cab, I remember being surprized at first, and taking the time to get used to it, sort of "my ears need to break-in…"
I think that video at the beginning of this thread makes good sense. I searched Google for the effects of time on loudspeaker spiders and received the below AI generated response. I remain agnostic.
"The behavior of loudspeaker spiders over time involves two phases: an initial "breaking-in" period where they become more flexible, followed by long-term aging which can cause them to become stiffer, looser, or degrade depending on the material and environmental factors.
The Initial "Breaking-In" Period
When a speaker is new, its spider (typically made of epoxy-dipped, corrugated fabric) is relatively stiff. The initial use, often over an average of 50 hours, is a crucial "breaking-in" or "run-in" period. During this time:
The material relaxes as micro-cracks form in the epoxy, allowing the fibers to move more freely.
The stiffness (compliance) decreases, which in turn lowers the speaker's resonant frequency and improves bass response, bringing it to the manufacturer's specified performance.
This is a permanent, non-reversible change that optimizes the speaker's performance.
Long-Term Aging and Degradation
After the breaking-in period, the spider reaches a stable, "mechanically mature" state. However, over a long period (years or decades), the material properties can change irreversibly due to various factors:
Stiffening: The materials can become brittle with age, especially certain types of paper or fabric treated with specific resins, leading to increased stiffness and potentially a scraping noise if the voice coil alignment is affected.
Sagging/Loosening (Creep): The material can also "sag" or lose its shape due to gravity, prolonged use, and the constant force of the cone/voice coil assembly, causing the cone to sit lower in the magnetic gap. This results in a looser spider, less effective frequency response, and reduced power handling capacity.
Environmental Factors: Like other speaker components (such as foam surrounds which are highly susceptible to UV light, ozone, and humidity), spider materials are affected by ambient conditions, leading to general degradation over time.
In summary, while brand-new spiders start stiff and soften with initial use, they can experience various forms of degradation, including a return to excessive stiffness or structural failure, as they age over many years."
"The behavior of loudspeaker spiders over time involves two phases: an initial "breaking-in" period where they become more flexible, followed by long-term aging which can cause them to become stiffer, looser, or degrade depending on the material and environmental factors.
The Initial "Breaking-In" Period
When a speaker is new, its spider (typically made of epoxy-dipped, corrugated fabric) is relatively stiff. The initial use, often over an average of 50 hours, is a crucial "breaking-in" or "run-in" period. During this time:
The material relaxes as micro-cracks form in the epoxy, allowing the fibers to move more freely.
The stiffness (compliance) decreases, which in turn lowers the speaker's resonant frequency and improves bass response, bringing it to the manufacturer's specified performance.
This is a permanent, non-reversible change that optimizes the speaker's performance.
Long-Term Aging and Degradation
After the breaking-in period, the spider reaches a stable, "mechanically mature" state. However, over a long period (years or decades), the material properties can change irreversibly due to various factors:
Stiffening: The materials can become brittle with age, especially certain types of paper or fabric treated with specific resins, leading to increased stiffness and potentially a scraping noise if the voice coil alignment is affected.
Sagging/Loosening (Creep): The material can also "sag" or lose its shape due to gravity, prolonged use, and the constant force of the cone/voice coil assembly, causing the cone to sit lower in the magnetic gap. This results in a looser spider, less effective frequency response, and reduced power handling capacity.
Environmental Factors: Like other speaker components (such as foam surrounds which are highly susceptible to UV light, ozone, and humidity), spider materials are affected by ambient conditions, leading to general degradation over time.
In summary, while brand-new spiders start stiff and soften with initial use, they can experience various forms of degradation, including a return to excessive stiffness or structural failure, as they age over many years."
Pffft, what they REALLY need is super expensive power cables...Audiophile amateurs.
It completely depends on the type of driver. That said, in most cases it's a myth.
With all the systems I've build there was only one that really required break in.
It was a small speaker with a 4" full range driver in it.
I've first build one speaker, which got enough play during testing and measuring. After that I build the second one and when I hooked them both up to the stereo amp the stereo image was off. I made sure it wasn't the amp, source or my ears (swapped the channels etc.) so the culprit were the speakers.
After letting them play (fairly loud) bass heavy music for 2 hours the stereo image stabilized.
With all the systems I've build there was only one that really required break in.
It was a small speaker with a 4" full range driver in it.
I've first build one speaker, which got enough play during testing and measuring. After that I build the second one and when I hooked them both up to the stereo amp the stereo image was off. I made sure it wasn't the amp, source or my ears (swapped the channels etc.) so the culprit were the speakers.
After letting them play (fairly loud) bass heavy music for 2 hours the stereo image stabilized.
A lot of it is your ears burning in to a new sound. The brain is a funny thing....it knows what it knows until it learns something new.
Persuasion is tricky topic, too.
Persuasion is tricky topic, too.
This is another situation in which there's a difference in theory, which is "real", but entirely meaningless in the real world for 99.9% of end users 99.9% of the time. The analogy I use is the unequivocal physical fact that the size & shape of the side mirrors on a pickup must have an impact on its performance, on paper, where it doesn't matter, ever, to anyone. As always, repeated, blind testing with a reasonably large sample size while changing only 1 variable is the ONLY way to know if a difference is "hearable", but the world remains filled with Kool-Aid drinkers screaming their anecdotes to the rafters. Ergo humanity. Merry Christmas 
