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Speaker cabinet to pair with MiniMAX

K

Kuma

Dec 17, 2019
4
0
#1
A while back I ran a Minimax 500w into a Peavey PVH 410 1200w. I had to move and leave it behind, and shipping that behemoth is out of the question currently. Now I'm left with just the amp and in the market for another smaller cabinet until I can make a drive across country to pick it up. My local music shop happens to be a Peavey dealer, so I'd like to stick to the brand and support a local business.

I'm currently looking at the Peavey headliner series. I'm interested in how the 115 and the 410 compare, but I'm also curious about the 210. I like the size of the 210, but I don't know if it can handle the minimax or how far I could push the volume if it could.

Any help and input is appreciated.
 
#2
Kuma said:
A while back I ran a Minimax 500w into a Peavey PVH 410 1200w. I had to move and leave it behind, and shipping that behemoth is out of the question currently. Now I'm left with just the amp and in the market for another smaller cabinet until I can make a drive across country to pick it up. My local music shop happens to be a Peavey dealer, so I'd like to stick to the brand and support a local business.

I'm currently looking at the Peavey headliner series. I'm interested in how the 115 and the 410 compare, but I'm also curious about the 210. I like the size of the 210, but I don't know if it can handle the minimax or how far I could push the volume if it could.

Any help and input is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Two 2x10s vertically stacked and an adjustable HPF in your signal chain should do it.:thumbsup:
 
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Reactions: ihaveaquestion, Lobster11 and m-j
#4
Vert stack guy here! Advantages:

-Sound is up at your ears, not down low. MUCH better for hearing yourself in a practice/gig situation without needing as much volume.

-No phase cancellation. No drivers side by side means no frequencies are lost.

-Lighter and more portable. Yeah, it’s 2 cabs vs one, but they’re WAY lighter and fit in virtually anything. An ‘02 Civic couple swallows my entire rig in its trunk.

-Smaller stage footprint. I’ve played on some tight ones and it was awesome having less cab behind me. That first advantage comes into play in this situation bigtime too... good luck hearing a regulation 410 clearly when it’s practically shoved up your backside on a tiny stage!

Disadvantages:

-
-
-

Ok I can’t actually think of any.
 
#5
I really appreciate the input guys. I only have a couple more questions.
I might have to get them individually to afford it comfortably, so could I run the minimax into just one until I get the other? I'm not gonna be gigging for a while, so it will stay at apartment appropriate volume for the most part.

I know my amp is 500w at 4ohms and a single 210 is 400w at 8ohms, and all of that pretty much goes over my head.
 
#8
oldfclefer said:
Running one 8 ohm cab with a 4 ohm minimum amp cuts the power output almost in half. Your amp will be putting out around 300 watts at 8 0hms. No problem for a 400 watt cab.
Click to expand...

This. Besides, at apartment appropriate volumes, you wouldn’t be approaching the level of output needed to roast a cab even with the ohm value out of the equation.
 
#11
Alright I think I'm almost there fellas. Now I'm just curious about the wiring. How do you plug it all up?
And if I ever got the 410 back how would it do in parallel with the 210? I'm assuming it could make some pretty good noise. Although at that point, does the wattage of my amp start coming into play?

On a side note, I appreciate all the help, I'm sure it gets tiring answering the same questions all the time.
 
#13
Hey Kuma, if what you mean by wiring is attaching speaker cables, your 2 8-ohm cabinets can either be powered by 2 separate cables attached to the head, or daisy chain fashion using 1 cable from the head and using your 2nd cable attached to the out on the cab back of the one you just connected. Makes no difference for your 4 ohm load assuming internal wiring is intact.
 
#14
crazyBassClown said:
Well how about so little difference that you don't see any pro international touring musicians using them and they can have pretty much whatever they want.
Also not sure what relevance a HPF has to comparing 410 and 210 cabs?
Click to expand...

The pros you speak of are DI’ed a vast majority of the time and any backline is either just for stage monitoring or for show. Have you ever run a vert stack? Were you ever personally hurt, offended, or insulted by one?
 
#15
Hey Kuma, welcome to talkbass.

Kuma said:
I know my amp is 500w at 4ohms and a single 210 is 400w at 8ohms, and all of that pretty much goes over my head.
Click to expand...

When your amp see an 8ohm load it will give that cab 'bout 300 watts, maybe a bit more. When it sees a 4ohm load, two 8ohm cabs, it will deliver the 500 watts. That 400 watt rating on the cab is what it can handle, not what it draws from the amp.

Kuma said:
I might have to get them individually to afford it comfortably, so could I run the minimax into just one until I get the other?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. For many years I had two 2x10 cabs. For small/medium sized gigs I used one, for larger venues I used both. Worked out great.

Kuma said:
Would there be a difference between that and just getting the 410?
Click to expand...

Not really, other than what I said above. 1 for small stuff, 2 for large. I also used to keep one at home and one at our practice room, then I only had to transport my bass and head back and forth to rehearsal. Also, stacking them vertically gets the second cab much closer to ear level to better hear yourself in a live gigging situation.
 
#16
bobomatic said:
The pros you speak of are DI’ed a vast majority of the time and any backline is either just for stage monitoring or for show. Have you ever run a vert stack? Were you ever personally hurt, offended, or insulted by one?
Click to expand...
No, but if you really cared about sound quality you'd be wise to follow their example. A vertical stack doesn't solve the biggest sound problem unless you always play to an empty room. Even worse than the dispersion problems in mids and highs is the fact that bodies in the way simply block the sound. Why do you think the PA speakers always go on stands over everyone's heads? I'm yet to see any instrument amp speaker high enough to actually reach the entire audience directly.
In fact it's highly likely that just in front of that vertical stack is a bass player busy blocking those mids and highs for a large portion of the room. Next time you check the dispersion of your rig, get someone to stand right in front of it where you do and see how that sounds out in the room.
 
#17
crazyBassClown said:
No, but if you really cared about sound quality you'd be wise to follow their example. A vertical stack doesn't solve the biggest sound problem unless you always play to an empty room. Even worse than the dispersion problems in mids and highs is the fact that bodies in the way simply block the sound. Why do you think the PA speakers always go on stands over everyone's heads? I'm yet to see any instrument amp speaker high enough to actually reach the entire audience directly.
In fact it's highly likely that just in front of that vertical stack is a bass player busy blocking those mids and highs for a large portion of the room. Next time you check the dispersion of your rig, get someone to stand right in front of it where you do and see how that sounds out in the room.
Click to expand...

Interesting perspective... one that makes a decent amount of sense. Truth is we do our thing for the audience and not ourselves... but hearing yourself on stage has to account for a large part of said audience getting a killing performance. In a venue with no bass in the stage monitor it’s your rig or nothing... for example the room I’m playing this Saturday. I carry the room... vocals and drums are the only thing running through FOH. I have to hear myself and the audience needs to hear me. I can’t see any way having my drivers up higher could be a disadvantage.

Thing is, you’re contradicting yourself. When you mention that you’ve never seen an instrument amp high enough to reach the house directly.... you just made a point for a vert stack vs. a side-by-side 410. My top driver fires between my chest and shoulders as opposed to a box firing below my ass. How can that be any form of an advantage?

I will follow your advice on checking dispersion though. It will give our frontman something to do for 2 minutes.
 
#18
Yes, having the speakers higher is an advantage. I'd say having them wider means the bass player blocks less of the rooms direct view to the speakers. If the speakers aren't above head height then the height really isn't a benefit as someone in front still blocks it from people behind.
My point is that the sound is compromised anyway and the vertical stack probably isn't anywhere near the advantage people think it is under real conditions. Lows are enough to get the bass heard.
I have been at the back of a local gig where the room was packed with a vocal only PA. I couldn't hear any guitar at all, just snare, bass and vocals mostly. All the mids and highs of the amps had been well and truly blocked before they got to me.
YMMV and if you like the stack then feel free, I personally have stopped worrying and stand in front of my speaker blocking the sound a bit, but we seem to do ok anyway.

Edit:
At a pro concert, I guarantee everyone in the audience will have a clear line of sight to the PA mid and high speakers due to the problems with blocking mentioned above.
Edit2:
Also one of the reasons a proper stage is at chest height or higher.
 
#20
lug said:
By using this theory, I've deduced that skinny bass players sound better than fat ones. Going on a diet immediately.
Click to expand...

5’11”, 155. I could use some pancakes but I guess I have the best body for metal??

crazyBassClown said:
Yes, having the speakers higher is an advantage. I'd say having them wider means the bass player blocks less of the rooms direct view to the speakers. If the speakers aren't above head height then the height really isn't a benefit as someone in front still blocks it from people behind.
My point is that the sound is compromised anyway and the vertical stack probably isn't anywhere near the advantage people think it is under real conditions. Lows are enough to get the bass heard.
I have been at the back of a local gig where the room was packed with a vocal only PA. I couldn't hear any guitar at all, just snare, bass and vocals mostly. All the mids and highs of the amps had been well and truly blocked before they got to me.
YMMV and if you like the stack then feel free, I personally have stopped worrying and stand in front of my speaker blocking the sound a bit, but we seem to do ok anyway.

Edit:
At a pro concert, I guarantee everyone in the audience will have a clear line of sight to the PA mid and high speakers due to the problems with blocking mentioned above.
Edit2:
Also one of the reasons a proper stage is at chest height or higher.
Click to expand...

Again all true, but how many of us get to play that ideal venue? I’m stoked when half the places my band plays has a bathroom door, much less a channel for everyone on the board or a high enough stage. My feels on why the vert is an advantage are up above, but I’ll add one thing. In a spot where the rig carries the room, I don’t have to have my volume nearly as high for stage monitoring which gives me the ability to not overpower the vocal PA to hear myself. To me this is huge.
 

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