Speaker Cone Warm Up

[Joe Smithberger]

Ok I have not seen a thread about this so please point me in the right direction if there is something here that I missed.

I have noticed that the tone of my rig changes quite a bit in the first hour of playing; even the firt half hour. I asume that is because the speakers have warmed up or the cones loosened or something. Especially at church where we don't always have a chance to sound check properly, I start with a tight, honky, sound; fuss with the EQ for the first three songs; and end up with things pretty much were they landed at the end of rehearsal by the end of the service. I really notice it with the Berg cabinets I've owned.

My question/comment is How does this affect all of our shootouts and in-store comparisons? I have never compared warm cabinets side-by-side. It's usually plug in and switch back and forth untill you decide which you like and then swap in another one. This is especially true with low note reproduction. A low D from my SR5 sounds like crap on the first song and like thunder on the last.

Does anyone here have a process or gig ritual to get over this tight cone thing or am I just nuts?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I asume that is because the speakers have warmed up or the cones loosened or something.

Correct. A warm driver will have a lower fs than a cold one, with better bass response being the result.

 

[KJung]

Ok I have not seen a thread about this so please point me in the right direction if there is something here that I missed.

I have noticed that the tone of my rig changes quite a bit in the first hour of playing; even the firt half hour. I asume that is because the speakers have warmed up or the cones loosened or something. Especially at church where we don't always have a chance to sound check properly, I start with a tight, honky, sound; fuss with the EQ for the first three songs; and end up with things pretty much were they landed at the end of rehearsal by the end of the service. I really notice it with the Berg cabinets I've owned.

My question/comment is How does this affect all of our shootouts and in-store comparisons? I have never compared warm cabinets side-by-side. It's usually plug in and switch back and forth untill you decide which you like and then swap in another one. This is especially true with low note reproduction. A low D from my SR5 sounds like crap on the first song and like thunder on the last.

Does anyone here have a process or gig ritual to get over this tight cone thing or am I just nuts?

Assuming Bill is correct (which I do), my experience is that the difference you are hearing is primarily due to something else. The impact of a driver warming up should be quite subtle (I've never noticed it). However, as our chops warm up a touch through the night, and as the volume and intensity of the music creeps up a touch as the gig goes on, combined with the impact of different numbers of people in the audience (in general, the more people, the more the upper end of your tone gets sucked up, resulting in more perceived bass) what you hear can sound quite different from the beginning of the gig to the end.

However, +1 on your 'shootout' comment. The only way to really assess the performance of a piece of gear is to have it in a relatively large number of gigging situations... different contexts, different volumes, and if possible, with different components (basses, heads) to really determine 'what is going on'.

My guess is 'speaker warm-up' from gig to gig accounts for a very, very small amount of the variance in a rig's tone. I do agree that new drivers can loosen a touch and result in a very subtle increase in bass response from 'out of the box' through the first hour or two of playing, but even that is subtle IMO, and is a one time situation.

IMO and IME.

 

[stedtale]

I have never really noticed it with my own stuff...but Bill and KJung both make excellent points, as they usually do.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

I've never noticed it, either.

But, like the OP, I have noticed a difference in my tone in the first 20-30 minutes of a gig. I have always attributed it to my hands and fingers getting warmed up. And the guitar player getting "his tone", which usually involves turning up his amp!

 

[morebass!]

My experience is that for the first few songs everything sounds good and then, after a few cymbol crashes, I start to lose sensitivity in my hearing. The guitarist and I usually turn up a little during the first set to keep up with our drummer and the volume edges up as more people show up and we get deafer. I fiddle with my EQ and usually by the end of the night I can't hear high frequencies as well and have turned up the treble. I think my hearing changes more than the speakers.

I'm sure KJung's other points and BFM's points are also factors.

 

[stedtale]

My experience is that for the first few songs everything sounds good and then, after a few cymbol crashes, I start to lose sensitivity in my hearing. The guitarist and I usually turn up a little during the first set to keep up with our drummer and the volume edges up as more people show up and we get deafer. I fiddle with my EQ and usually by the end of the night I can't hear high frequencies as well and have turned up the treble. I think my hearing changes more than the speakers.

I'm sure KJung's other points and BFM's points are also factors.

hmmmm....that could also play in. hearing loss, the highs are the first to go.

 

[Nakedfish]

I always find that whatever rig I play through, if I leave it switched on for a hour or so before I play it does sound warmer.

I also notice this effect in rehearsals where the tone seems to get a little warmer throughout the first hour or so and then stays constant.

IMO it's more down to the amplifier 'warming up' than anything else. Other than that, I have no idea... but I can hear the difference...

 

[Steve Clark]

Can't say I've noticed the sound getting better on a gig. I can say that I have had the experience of plugging in a certain bass and not liking it and then days later plugging in the same bass and loving it. No changes to the set up. Or even my experience this weekend of thinking I should change the strings on the Roscoe but then on the gig it sounded marvelous. Love that church with those nice soft carpets and mmmm warm sound.

You do say you "fuss with the EQ" for the first three songs so it would seem that the cones aren't changing much but your ears and EQ find what you want to hear.

 

[Kenny Allyn]

Interesting topic, and timely for me ...

Never noticed this until yesterday, I was in Missouri to pickup the prototype of our new speaker cab, when I got there it was still in final assembly and the speaker was not installed. the speaker came out of a parts bin in a cool room (it was 34 outside).

Freshly installed we fired it up with a MB LM II head and active Jazz. It sounded good but the bottom end was not what I expected, but after playing for awhile it really opened up.

I had some Stereo HiFi speakers that the manufacturer recomened playing for several hours at reduced volume until the "broke in", and they did sound better after that.


... Makes sense I guess?

 

[superiorpine]

I play through, if I leave it switched on for a hour or so before I play it does sound warmer.

I also notice this effect in rehearsals where the tone seems to get a little warmer throughout the first hour or so and then stays constant.

IMO it's more down to the amplifier 'warming up' than anything else. Other than that, I have no idea... but I can hear the difference...

+1 on the electronics. In the audiophile press, reviewers generally won't critique amps and preamps until they are warmed up. They will even speak to bass "opening up" as the electronics warm up.

 

[bluebledthesea]

My experience is that for the first few songs everything sounds good and then, after a few cymbol crashes, I start to lose sensitivity in my hearing. The guitarist and I usually turn up a little during the first set to keep up with our drummer and the volume edges up as more people show up and we get deafer. I fiddle with my EQ and usually by the end of the night I can't hear high frequencies as well and have turned up the treble. I think my hearing changes more than the speakers.

I'm sure KJung's other points and BFM's points are also factors.

Wear ear plugs!

 

[FunkyFrosty]

Interesting topic, and timely for me ...


I had some Stereo HiFi speakers that the manufacturer recomened playing for several hours at reduced volume until the "broke in", and they did sound better after that.


... Makes sense I guess?

I've noticed these "new speaker" situations before - I don't know if its just me or my ears, but with several brand new cabinets over the years - I find that I appreciated them much more after about two weeks of use (I'm playing everyday).

Usually the difference was in low frequency response - i.e. the cabinets projected the low frequencies better after some use.

Are there any recommendations for running in new bass drivers??,

 

[KJung]

I've noticed these "new speaker" situations before - I don't know if its just me or my ears, but with several brand new cabinets over the years - I find that I appreciated them much more after about two weeks of use (I'm playing everyday).

Usually the difference was in low frequency response - i.e. the cabinets projected the low frequencies better after some use.

Are there any recommendations for running in new bass drivers??,

This is a different issue than the OP was talking about. However, there is no 'special' break-in method necessary. Some guys play CD's through their speakers for hours to 'break them in'. I kind of find this hilarious (although it surely doesn't do any harm).

Play through the speaker for a little bit (15 minutes, whatever, just to make sure there is nothing wrong) at moderate volume prior to your first gig with it, and then crank that baby up. By the end of the gig, guess what, your speaker will be 'broken in'.

 

[FunkyFrosty]

Of course thats good advice and makes sense - but have you experienced that before???, change in low freq response after a time being played??

 

[KJung]

Of course thats good advice and makes sense - but have you experienced that before???, change in low freq response after a time being played??

I have not, but others swear they have. I don't doubt that in some cases there would be a subtle loosening of the surrounds, especially in those hi xmax driver designs like the Acme. For most 'standard' cabs, I've never owned a cab that I thought was thin sounding at the start and then it magically 'opened up' in a week or two.

Again, not saying that it's not there, but in general, my guess is those that hear a huge or even moderate difference in a cab's tone over time are also adjusting playing styles, EQ, etc. over time to fine tune their tone with a new piece of gear. When you combine this with the fact that each and every room has its own bass response and tone, it would be surprising to me that the slight loosening of the surrounds would result in such a change as to be noticeable on different gigs in different rooms at different volume levels over time.

The good news is, if the effect does exist, it seems to be int the direction of 'improvement', so it's kind of a moot point (i.e., play the thing, and if the low end does extend a touch over time, cool!) What's going to happen is going to happen... nothing special needed as far as I know.

Just IME on this!

 

[FunkyFrosty]

Kjung, you are making sense - I agree and just like the situation with the OP, although I "thought" I could hear something (gradual tonal change), my logical consciense tends to tell me that it was as you said - a room, an eq, my technique, the rest of the band, heck even my own ears.

On rare occasions - I have been known to be in tonal bliss and then for some reason return the the same room with the same eq and not like my sound as much!!!!(sometimes your'e on, sometimes your'e not).

Also -the earlier point about hearing protection is also particularly important, if you are playing at levels which are obvioulsy affecting the way your ears hear the sound at the gig (ie constantly increasing treble after the first few cymbal crashes) you most definatley must wear some appropriate hearing protection.

 

[KJung]

Kjung, you are making sense - I agree and just like the situation with the OP, although I "thought" I could hear something (gradual tonal change), my logical consciense tends to tell me that it was as you said - a room, an eq, my technique, the rest of the band, heck even my own ears.

On rare occasions - I have been known to be in tonal bliss and then for some reason return the the same room with the same eq and not like my sound as much!!!!(sometimes your'e on, sometimes your'e not).

Also -the earlier point about hearing protection is also particularly imnportant, if you are playing at levels which are obvioulsy affecting the way your ears hear the sound at the gig (ie constantly increasing treble after the first few cymbal crashes) the you most definatley must wear some appropriate hearing protection.

+1 Even in the same room, a different audience size, or even a small difference in the placement of the bass rig on stage can really change the timbre of the tone.

That's one of the reasons I really like finding a rig and bass that sounds good set 'flat' (not 'flat' on the scope, but with all the tone controls centered, etc.). This allows you to very simply and easily use EQ the way it was really meant to be used.... not as a way to muscle a rig into having the tone profile you want, but rather to keep a rig sounding relatively the same across different playing contexts and situations by subtle boosts and cuts.

Of course, you can do this even when you start out with radical EQ settings, but it's just not as intuitive. There's nothing easier than having a rig that sounds good to you set 'flat', and then just doing a quick slight low end or treble adjustment given the size and acoustic quality of the room.

Sorry, I'm getting a little OT, but I love this stuff

Edit: A big +1 on plugs. The best thing I ever did was put out the $150 or so for the custom fit 'Westone' type plugs. They are comfortable, and the -15db filters result in a nice reduction in volume without totally sucking the treble and upper mids out of the stage sound... really nice and worth their weight in gold IMO!

 

[makaky]

Im pretty sure our earing change after 30 mins of relatively high volume music.

 

[koobie]

Here's some questions for you speaker guys:
What about the effects of power compression? Isn't this where efficiency (and perceived amount of bass) goes down, rather than up?
How hot do voice coils typically get on a driver at or near it's rated wattage? How long does it take for woofer voice coils to get 'warmed up' on an average driver? I know of tweeters being cooled with ferrofluids, are many woofers treated in this way?