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Speaker Level D.I.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by unbridled, Mar 1, 2018.


  1. unbridled

    unbridled

    May 26, 2005
    Montana
    Endorsing Artist-Compton Compensated Custom Bridges (for Gretsch 6ers)
    I would like to get one. Recommend something not too expensive, but decent.

    I know Jimmy will say to get a Countryman, which isn't a bad suggestion. Any others folks like?

    They don't have any effect on impedance, right?
     
  2. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    Rupert Neve RNDI is a nice sounding product.

    Less expensive is the Radial Engineering products. A consideration is whether or not you have an active or passive bass. An active bass is often paired with a passive DI. I use a passive bass with a passive DI so the rule does not have to be followed. In this case the DI output is lower.
     
  3. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    And no, they don’t have an effect on impedance.

    When you parallel (daisy chain) a high resistance with a low one (the cab) you get a low resistance.
     
  4. Speaker level DI won't give a fig about the bass being active or passive.

    Mind out with some class D and possibly others that have signal on ground and blow themselves up when the wrong DI is inserted on speaker. @agedhorse might get it through to you better.
     
    punchclock and Kro like this.
  5. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    When you buy a DI, you might want to use it with a bass plugged into the front end, you might want to use it daisy chained to the output. You want to consider all the options and select a product that is flexible and not limiting.
     
  6. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2007
    boston, ma
    I think the comment was more in the case that you want to use the DI for other purposes. Yes, on the speaker out it wouldn’t matter.

    I have a countryman myself, mostly use it for speaker level or as a DI off of the OT tapped line out on one of my amps. When not using it for that function I generally pair it with my passive instruments.
     
  7. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I assume you will be using this on a tube amp. Not really necessary on a SS amp, and certain SS amps can blow by running them speaker level. I believe Agedhorse said it was amps that bridge two power amps together. I still stand by the Countryman suggestion BTW :D although the Whirlwind Director is a pretty excellent and cheap little box that can do speaker level.
     
  8. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Also bear in mind that you still have to have a cab hooked up to your tube amp, as the DI box doesn't take the place of a speaker load.
     
  9. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    The thing about the Radial DI speaker load is that they put a bandpass filter on that input. It emulates a “guitar” speaker, they don’t provide the frequency specs on this filter. People like this DI, others don’t because of this. The reason why they do this is by filtering out the low end energy, the DI can handle more watts.

    Other DI’s, such as the Neve and the Countryman do not bandpass the sampled signal.
     
  10. mesaplayer83

    mesaplayer83

    Jun 27, 2017
    I have the Countryman and the Radial JDI, and have used both for speaker level DI sends - IMO, the JDI works slightly better for this, although the Countryman is good, also... If I had to choose between that two, I would keep the Countryman, as it works for overall DI purposes better *for me*...

     
    NKBassman likes this.
  11. mesaplayer83

    mesaplayer83

    Jun 27, 2017
    I *think* the JDX simulates a guitar speaker, whereas the JDI just slightly high and low passes the signal, IIRC...
     
    beans-on-toast likes this.
  12. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    I turns out that the JDI has a 12” speaker emulation (page 2, item 12). The JDX has an active speaker filter that emulates a cross between a closed back 412 and an open back 212 (page 8). This is only when the speaker is sampled. Plugging in the front and out to the mixer does not go through the speaker emulators.

    Here are the JDI and JDX manuals:

    http://www.radialeng.com/pdfs/manual-jdi.pdf


    http://www.radialeng.com/pdfs/manual-jdx.pdf
     
  13. mesaplayer83

    mesaplayer83

    Jun 27, 2017
    I thought it was something like that - I can say that I had no problem getting a great sound to FOH using the JDI as a speaker level DI for my Mesa 400...
     
    punchclock likes this.
  14. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    The Jensen transformer in the JDI is a plus. I’ve thought about modifying the bandpass filter but it doesn’t bother me the way that it is.
     
    10cc and mesaplayer83 like this.
  15. mesaplayer83

    mesaplayer83

    Jun 27, 2017
    While I preferred the sound of the JDI as a speaker level DI, I think nearly all of my basses sound better thru the Countryman if I'm using either in front of the amp...
     
    beans-on-toast likes this.
  16. honeyiscool

    honeyiscool

    Jan 28, 2011
    San Diego, CA
    If you have something less than 100 watts, you can use a Suhr Reactive Load which can function as a silent speaker load. Or you can just use it as a speaker-level DI by plugging in a speaker into it. It is modeled after a guitar speaker, the reactive load bit is, but I really can't imagine it failing to get a really good sound for any 50 watt bass amp.

    If the point is for live use, something like the Radial JDI or JDX would already give you a slightly baked in curve, and be useful for other needs as well. Or maybe like a Palmer PDI. These do not replace a load in a tube amp and might be nice and easy to use to just have an output to the board that sounds finished. But for recording, maybe you don't want that.

    RNDI and Countryman Type 85 give you a DI output with no speaker simulation at all. Either would work nicely. (Why the JDI doesn't have a bypass for the filter, I don't know.) I prefer having no baked in speaker simulation to have more options for speaker simulation down the line.
     
    mesaplayer83 likes this.
  17. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    DI's should not be used with any amp that uses a bridged output topology, including most class D bass amps. Not only is it dangerous to the amp, it's also dangerous to the console.
     
  18. So Genz Benz Shuttles, Streamliners, Trace Elf, New Fender Rumble, all your GK, Peavey, Markbass, Hartke, adinfinitum micro amps no good on Countryman speaker DI?
     
  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    I wouldn't, and add everything that uses the IcePower 700ASC module to your list as well.
     
    mikewalker and David Jayne like this.
  20. Wow. Ok, good to know thanks. Would you explain why, in a way that the average techy would understand?
     
    10cc likes this.

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