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Speaker recommendation for 1x12 cab

Bobbadfinger

Bobbadfinger

Jan 23, 2020
452
656
Brazil
#1
Hi guys !

In the search of a decent/low budget/small cab I built a 1x12 based in a project I saw in this forum (can't remember the specific thread, but it's 45cm (W), 36cm (D) and 50cm (H); 4 circular ports (diameter 6cm, 16cm long). Speaker used is a Fane Colossus 12BMN.
(I use an Ampeg Micro-VR, Precision with TI Jazz rounds and I like old school tone for blues/rock).

It sounds ok, but honestly I was expecting more...I have another cab; smaller yet (45cm(W), 26cm (D), 42cm (H)), not fancy tuned - just one port in the back, with an Eminence Deltalite 2512 (first series, not the II), that sounds almost as loud and have similar low end response.

Who can I blame (besides the player, since I'm a guitar player...) ?
I'd thought this Fane would be a much better choice for bass than the Deltalite.
I don't have a lot of options speakerwise down here in Brazil, besides a Jensen BS12N/250A (can bought it new for a good price), Eminence Basslite S2012 and Eminence Legend BP122 (not cheap), 18 Sound 12W500 (have one here) or maybe some old Eminence Delta 12LFA in the used market.

A different speaker would be a significant improvement or it's just the nature of the cab ?
What would be the best choice for this cab considering my availability ?

Thanks for any help,
Roberto
 
#2
I think you have discovered the limitations of the format. That said, without doing the math, you have no idea how significant the limitations really are.
 
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#4
If you can get all the Thiele/small parameter specs for the speaker and use some online calculators for port tuning, etc... you might be able to tune the cab for better performance with that specific speaker.

I picked up a smaller format 1x12" cab loaded with an EVM12L from a guitarist. I wanted that EVM for a guitar combo. It was closed back and had a 3" hole cut in it for porting. It sounded OK with the EVM for guitar, but farted out with bass. Took the EVM out and put it in my open backed guitar combo amp--it sounded great.
Then decided that the cab would may work fine for bass, if tuned properly. Found the specs for the Delta Pro 12A, entered them into some calculators and saw that all I would have to really do was tune the port. Got the speaker, tuned the port (4" wide-6" long) and it really opened up and bumped nicely for bass!
 
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#5
bigtone23 said:
If you can get all the Thiele/small parameter specs for the speaker and use some online calculators for port tuning, etc... you might be able to tune the cab for better performance with that specific speaker.

I picked up a smaller format 1x12" cab loaded with an EVM12L from a guitarist. I wanted that EVM for a guitar combo. It was closed back and had a 3" hole cut in it for porting. It sounded OK with the EVM for guitar, but farted out with bass. Took the EVM out and put it in my open backed guitar combo amp--it sounded great.
Then decided that the cab would may work fine for bass, if tuned properly. Found the specs for the Delta Pro 12A, entered them into some calculators and saw that all I would have to really do was tune the port. Got the speaker, tuned the port (4" wide-6" long) and it really opened up and bumped nicely for bass!
Click to expand...
Since the EVM and Delta Pro are quite different drivers in the low frequency region and do not have the same TS parameters, the drivers will not tune the same. Your results were based on luck rather than the math you did.
 
#6
agedhorse said:
Since the EVM and Delta Pro are quite different drivers in the low frequency region and do not have the same TS parameters, the drivers will not tune the same. Your results were based on luck rather than the math you did.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to argue, you have forgotten more about cab design than I may ever know. However, it wasn't just luck that made it an acceptable bass cab, there was a lot of math, research and reasoning involved.

I was only interested in the OEM EVM12L for my Mesa combo, I was going to just pitch or give the cab away. However, the cab was roughly the size of many 1x12" bass cabs on the market. I then decided that it could be a learning experience/experiment: what if it can be tuned for bass and also be a punchy and usable extension cab for guitar? I love pragmatic challenges.

A production company was shedding inventory and had a NOS DP12A for sale on Craig's List for $40. This was cool, from my experiences, that DP12A works pretty well in stage monitors, and it is also used as a EVM-esque guitar speaker, too. Measured the inside dimensions of the cab, got the internal volume, determined if it's sturdy enough for bass use, etc... then looked at the specs on Eminence's website for the speaker for usable frequency response, resonant frequency, etc... and saw that the numbers were all within the recommended operating range for the speaker. Everything seemed reasonable and I grabbed the speaker. If this plan didn't work out, I could easily flip the speaker for no loss.

The original owner/guitarist built the cab roughly on the TS806 spec for use with guitar. It is slightly larger than a TS806 cab. As it sat, it sounded OK with the EV for guitar, not so fine with bass. It also sounded fine for guitar with the Delta Pro 12A. With bass, it sounded better than the EVM, but still not very good. After entering a lot of data into the cab calculators and reading a bunch of articles about how to tune a cab for bass, I came up with a 'proper' port tuning and some light insulating/dampening of the cab. It was night and day, in tone and performance. I can't accept that was because of luck.
 
#7
It certainly wasn't because you used the TS parameters of the Delta Pro for the EVM, that was the part that resulted in luck.
 
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#9
Bobbadfinger said:
Hi guys !

In the search of a decent/low budget/small cab I built a 1x12 based in a project I saw in this forum (can't remember the specific thread, but it's 45cm (W), 36cm (D) and 50cm (H); 4 circular ports (diameter 6cm, 16cm long). Speaker used is a Fane Colossus 12BMN.
(I use an Ampeg Micro-VR, Precision with TI Jazz rounds and I like old school tone for blues/rock).

It sounds ok, but honestly I was expecting more...I have another cab; smaller yet (45cm(W), 26cm (D), 42cm (H)), not fancy tuned - just one port in the back, with an Eminence Deltalite 2512 (first series, not the II), that sounds almost as loud and have similar low end response.

Who can I blame (besides the player, since I'm a guitar player...) ?
I'd thought this Fane would be a much better choice for bass than the Deltalite.
I don't have a lot of options speakerwise down here in Brazil, besides a Jensen BS12N/250A (can bought it new for a good price), Eminence Basslite S2012 and Eminence Legend BP122 (not cheap), 18 Sound 12W500 (have one here) or maybe some old Eminence Delta 12LFA in the used market.

A different speaker would be a significant improvement or it's just the nature of the cab ?
What would be the best choice for this cab considering my availability ?

Thanks for any help,
Roberto
Click to expand...
Find out what speaker is in the 112av (or 212av if you find that easier)
 
#11
Yep, I understand this 1x12 configuration has its limitations and speaker must complement cab design; but that cab was an detailed project - ten page worth thread, it's a shame I was not able to find it again - where the goal was to extract the best result within this configuration.
And although I didn't use one of the speakers suggested, I picked up one that complied to the minimum Thiele parameters required (XMS, QES etc) for it.

I downloaded the WinISD but to be honest I need a lot more reading to make good use of the program.

I was just wondering IF this particular cab project is popular at all (at least in talkbass), maybe someone could have previous experience with the drivers listed.

As far as the speaker used in the Ampeg 112AV, looks like it's a "custom" Eminence driver, not sure it's available on the market.

But really appreciated all the responses...
 
#16
BassmanPaul said:
In the guitar world drivers can be substituted for each other almost willy nilly.

The bass world is drastically different. A driver has to be matched with it's enclosure for it to handle low frequencies with authority.
Click to expand...
And have the proper compliance to work with the style of cabinet: infinite baffle, ported, folded, etc., to get the desired frequency response out of the cabinet.
 
#17
Pulverizor said:
Sure is a lot of ports!
Got those Fane TS numbers handy?
Click to expand...

Sure !
COLOSSUS 12MBN

BTW, specs for the two speakers I have at hand:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
http://nedlab.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/12W500.pdf

I really would like to know (at least on theory) which one would perform better in this particular cab. I know I could test it first, but Fane has a different mounting holes due to a frame around the basket, and I'd like to preserve the brand new cab from additional holes in the baffle if I could...
 
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