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Speaker sim DI

Tech21 should be all over this idea. Half of their stuff is DI's & analog sims, they know how to do nicely flexible routing, and some of their products already have a sort of non-adjustable speaker sim onboard. They've got the building blocks, probably the know-how, and the niche seems right in their bread & butter zone.

Kind of odd really, that they haven't gone after this half of the same basic equation yet, after all of these years. Sansamps have been around for what, over two decades now?
 
Tech21 should be all over this idea. Half of their stuff is DI's & analog sims, they know how to do nicely flexible routing, and some of their products already have a sort of non-adjustable speaker sim onboard. They've got the building blocks, probably the know-how, and the niche seems right in their bread & butter zone.

Kind of odd really, that they haven't gone after this half of the same basic equation yet, after all of these years. Sansamps have been around for what, over two decades now?

precisely! I compare what Fishman Transducer has done for acoustic guitar DI with their Aura pedal in the $350+/- price range. Something similar but with bass guitar specific features is what I'd like to see. Evidently the bean counters don't see the profit in this....yet.
 
Does Tech21 make any DSP based products? It looks to me like "all analog" is a marketing point for them. If not I can well understand why they may not want to.

Don't think they do, and no I wouldn't expect Torpedo or even Fishman sttyle IR processing from them.

But I'd think they would do *something*, given the above, and considering they already do something (kinda) of the sort in the VT bass pedals. A better version of that, with multiple cab choices, and maybe even user settable HPF/LPF on top of it, in a VTD or BDDI housing, with sim XLR DI for FOH, active 1/4" out, and parallel (unprocessed) 1/4" out for bypass to regular amp... they'd surely make money on something like that.
 
Don't think they do, and no I wouldn't expect Torpedo or even Fishman sttyle IR processing from them.

But I'd think they would do *something*, given the above, and considering they already do something (kinda) of the sort in the VT bass pedals. A better version of that, with multiple cab choices, and maybe even user settable HPF/LPF on top of it, in a VTD or BDDI housing, with sim XLR DI for FOH, active 1/4" out, and parallel (unprocessed) 1/4" out for bypass to regular amp... they'd surely make money on something like that.

yup yup yup...speaker level output DI compatible too, please.
 
Does Tech21 make any DSP based products? It looks to me like "all analog" is a marketing point for them. If not I can well understand why they may not want to.

Our Roto Choir, Delay, Reverb and Chorus pedals all employ digital technology. As long as you are not mixing these effects 100% wet, your dry signal remains in the analog domain. The one exception is the Roto Choir. When that effect is engaged the entire signal is digital due to the nature of this effect.

But I'd think they would do *something*, given the above, and considering they already do something (kinda) of the sort in the VT bass pedals. A better version of that, with multiple cab choices, and maybe even user settable HPF/LPF on top of it, in a VTD or BDDI housing, with sim XLR DI for FOH, active 1/4" out, and parallel (unprocessed) 1/4" out for bypass to regular amp... they'd surely make money on something like that.

The IR's utilize a digital EQ curve that would be impractical to implement in the analog domain. Of course the downside is latency and the fact that your analog signal has to go through the A/D conversion process.

HPF/LPF? Do you feel the need for this when using the pedals direct to the board or for going in front of the amp.
 
The IR's utilize a digital EQ curve that would be impractical to implement in the analog domain. Of course the downside is latency and the fact that your analog signal has to go through the A/D conversion process.

True. The Torpedo stuff is 32-bit 96kKz & 2.875 ms latency, so not too bad (moving about a meter further from your cab is a little more latency than that.) But it's on the expensive side.

But analog EQ + HPF/LPF can go a long way toward getting what folks are asking for here. (Some might want the exactitude of IR, but plenty just want basic shaping similar to what various cabs do.) You can see JimmyM asking for nothing more than a top-end rolloff, somebody modding an fDeck HPF to add LPF, kringle77 using those very functions in a DBX Driverack, trying a Torpedo, and ending up with a simpler analog unit (ADA GCS-2, correct?). I nearly bought an old Rane PE17, but decided to try the Torpedo. If ya'll had something like this I would have definitely bought one. (Happy former owner of an RBI, currently with a Tri-AC and VTD.)


HPF/LPF? Do you feel the need for this when using the pedals direct to the board or for going in front of the amp.

Either or neither.

Amp: If running traditional bass amp/cabs, wouldn't necessarily need either. But adjustable HPF is nice even for those rigs, to tame "boom" for many stages/rooms, and for uprights. (Look at the popularity of the fDeck HPF III for those purposes.) Anyone with a pre/power rig (often no built-in HPF) using traditional cabs would also appreciate the HPF for speaker protection. Those running more FRFR-ish cabs (fearfuls, fearless, audiokinesis, barefaced, acme, baer, etc), one might want both for the same reasons (LPF is nice for tone shaping on the high end).

Board: Everyone is asking for that, so not much to add. But the ability to bypass it is still good, if one has other devices that do speaker sim already. (VT being an obvious example.)


I can picture something as simple as a programmable HPF/LPF/Parametric EQ, stuffed into one of your multi-button programmable DI chassis. HPF & LPF knobs with 2 or 3-way slope switches. Maybe 4 EQ knobs, each with Q switch, and a mini-knob for frequencies. (Or maybe just a switch with 3 good choices.) Or even just EQ knobs without switches, as long as their behavior is tailored for the kind of shaping needed. (Or hide those advanced options on DIP switches inside, lol.) One more knob for mild "cone breakup" distortion would be a pretty wild thing to have. Other ideas... guitar/bass switch? Mic placement knob?


Call it a Programmable EQ/Speaker Simulator, and include a settings sheet with examples that sound pretty close to a handful of popular cabinets, and some more for various "playing/music styles".

Bingo, the Tech21 analog alternative to both digital speaker simulations and programmable EQs. Leveraging your existing tech/designs/interfaces. Easy enough for newbies to use (in live, practice, or studio scenarios), yet powerful enough to make the gearheads drool. :cool:

Is something like that theoretically plausible, or way too much circuitry to fit (or meet a reasonable cost-point)? Seems worth thinking about, at least.

Or make the digital equivalent, an IR-loading DI box with better options/routing than the Torpedo, like Fishman already does (but only with a handful of proprietary IRs, specifially for acoustic guitars).

I'd buy either one. In fact I just did, for a pretty penny, from somebody else. And I'm already complaining that it doesn't have the slick routing capabilities that my VTD does. (Same thing that prompted kringle77 to sell his.) :D
 
A good adjustable hp and lp filter device would be enough for most players. Would have to have an xlr out. An xlr in would be great so that you could run from your amps di and therefore, not have to use a tuner or fx output to send a signal. You could leave it velcro'd in the rack. Steep filters would be best I think, or at least on the hp for sure.

Thats the basics right there. After that is all the wishlist stuff like a tube preamp section, eq, etc.
 
Personally, I'm interested in the IR as the primary method of mic/cabinet emulation, and USB to allow loading custom or 3rd party IRs. Added to this, a little attention to the impact of "speaker drive" on the tone would be cool. So, I'm more concerned with this being a post-preamp type of device, assuming that all tone/effects would happen before the box...like a traditional direct box. Speaker level input option also...
 
What about the Red Box 5 from H&K... Has anyone tried it? The changeable filter might be a nice feature to get a good bass tone.

There is no sound clip or video i can find online, so i got one used from eBay and will try to record some clips with it, so people can make up their mind about it.
 
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What about the Red Box 5 from H&K... Has anyone tried it? The changeable filter might be a nice feature to get a good bass tone.

There is no sound clip or video i can find online, so i got one used from eBay and will try to record some clips with it, so people can make up their mind about it.

I have an older RedBox I've used in conjunction with a DI. And that worked better than just the DI alone. My RedBox cuts too much low end for Bass but mids and highs worked really well. So if the latest version works as well but with better lower frequency cut-off options I'd jump on it.
 
Can I just be honest for a second here? All those hi frequencies that a speaker sim is cutting out are TOTALLY lost in a live mix anyway. If you really need to, just twist your tone knob a touch.
You've apparently never been to a Marcus Miller concert. I know plenty of soundmen who have, though, and the one thing they have in common is that they like snappy high end. And it is completely noticeable. Some soundmen make it unnoticeable. Some don't. For them, I need my speaker sim.

And after investigating all the possibilities, I finally just decided to use my VT Deluxe. I had it already, it can be set very flat, it does channel switching and overdrive, doesn't involve buying a rack...
 
My mate Colin p Parks of Devilment uses a 2 notes Torpedo in his guitar rig, I think it's a very very good tool.
In studio I have found interspersing that latency when trying to mic the speakers as well is a bit of a phase nightmare. And results in judicious track slipping and or little labs phase tool to get the signals to properly line up.
So for speaker sim I tend to go the old immediate analogue route with the Sequis Motherload Dual Pro.
It's a totally passive devise, sounds fantasticly good and has two seperate channels of EQ and a choice of Jack or XLR output.
The build quality, simplicity and ruggedness of the Motherload means a lot to us, as we have to have stuff that can withstand for instance, Invasion and merciless sweeps of Northern Russia.
Remember if you will the problems Adolf had with non starting tigers and such like.:-(

I won't be able to give you a report on the 2 notes torpedo roadworthy ness until Christmass after Devilment have finished invading Europe.
PS Hope the flack's jolly light going over the border tomorrow night Chaps!, there is evidence that flying well above 30,000 ft might be frightfully advisable.

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