Speaker size 10" vs 12"

[HaphAsSard]

Of course, red is faster. It's science!

You would know, given your location!

(Now, can polka dot red be faster still, since it's got speed holes? Uhmm...)

 

[gtirard]

Pretty sure Great Britain is still partially imperial.

Yes - partially = only for beer (not for bass amps)

 

[Wasnex]

Yes - partially = only for beer (not for bass amps)

Also,
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[agedhorse]

Do you know how many countries in the world are still using the good old imperial system?

3

"The U.S., Myanmar and Liberia are the only countries that still use the imperial system day to day"

How many countries are using the metric system?

All other countries in the world.

There's an interesting history behind this though, that helps understand WHY this is so (even if I wish is wasn't)...

World War 2 was really the turning point because the United States was the only major industrial manufacturing region that was not severely damaged or destroyed during the war. While the rest of the industrial world was rebuilding from almost scratch with not real cost penalty to choose one system over the other, the United States had tens of trillions of dollars worth of infrastructure that could not be converted without hampering the United State's resources to help the other countries rebuild (in stark contrast to what happened after World War 1).

The decision was made that it was more important for global peace to use those resources for rebuilding those countries (including yours) than to re-tool our industrial base. Was this the right decision? I think it's pretty obvious with the benefit of hindsight that it was a good investment for the global good.

For the history buffs, WW2 cost the US about $4 trillion dollars (in 2023 dollars) and in 1945 we spend 40% of our GDP on the war and post war effort. This is more than any other country in the world. The money had to come from somewhere, it came from government bonds, taxes, borrowing from past and future programs and from the sacrifices of the individuals and industry. Sacrifices including not updating our industrial, roads and utilities infrastructure because the global needs were greater than our own by comparison.

And to those of you who had relatives in the war, or who had family working the war effort here at home, I can't express enough appreciation for the sacrifices made. My grandfather was a pilot in WW1, and he was in the heavy machine tool industry supporting industrial manufacturing during WW2, his WW1 experiences caused him to support the WW2 effort because he saw first hand what "could have been".

 

[Snert]

Something to keep in mind is volume capabilities are determined by two factors, 1. usable power and 2. speaker efficiency.

SPL is determined by the volume of air displaced at a given frequency. Power in dBW plus sensitivity give you an idea but unless you know the specs of the driver and the enclosure design/tuning, you won't know when you'll run out of excursion which is the most likely limitation with modern drivers.

 

[Wasnex]

SPL is determined by the volume of air displaced at a given frequency. Power in dBW plus sensitivity give you an idea but unless you know the specs of the driver and the enclosure design/tuning, you won't know when you'll run out of excursion which is the most likely limitation with modern drivers.

Agreed.

Some companies rate cabs based on the RMS rating of the driver, which is essentially the thermal rating of the voice coil. However, the mechanical power handling below 100hz is often significantly less then a given driver's RMS power rating. As you have indicated, driver specs and they way the driver tunes in the cab determines mechanical power handling.

From what I have seen, it's not unusual for mechanical power handling to be significantly less than RMS power handling even within the intended pass band.

Furthermore, if you operate a ported cab below it's intended pass band, mechanical power handling generally drops off extremely fast; which is a very good reason to use an HPF.

 

[Afc70]

And to those of you who had relatives in the war, or who had family working the war effort here at home, I can't express enough appreciation for the sacrifices made.

For sure Andy! My father (he passed away in 2000) was a Navy corpsman and was in the one of the first waves to hit the beach with the 5th Marine Division, at the battle of Iwo Jima. He was a medic, and ended up receiving a Purple Heart when he was hit by shrapnel from mortar fire. He rarely talked about his hellish experience, but told me some things that I wouldn’t mention here because they’d be way too graphic.. It truly was a bloody & hard fought battle, one of tremendous sacrifice.

 

[gtirard]

There's an interesting history behind this though, that helps understand WHY this is so (even if I wish is wasn't)...

World War 2 was really the turning point because the United States was the only major industrial manufacturing region that was not severely damaged or destroyed during the war. While the rest of the industrial world was rebuilding from almost scratch with not real cost penalty to choose one system over the other, the United States had tens of trillions of dollars worth of infrastructure that could not be converted without hampering the United State's resources to help the other countries rebuild (in stark contrast to what happened after World War 1).

The decision was made that it was more important for global peace to use those resources for rebuilding those countries (including yours) than to re-tool our industrial base. Was this the right decision? I think it's pretty obvious with the benefit of hindsight that it was a good investment for the global good.

For the history buffs, WW2 cost the US about $4 trillion dollars (in 2023 dollars) and in 1945 we spend 40% of our GDP on the war and post war effort. This is more than any other country in the world. The money had to come from somewhere, it came from government bonds, taxes, borrowing from past and future programs and from the sacrifices of the individuals and industry. Sacrifices including not updating our industrial, roads and utilities infrastructure because the global needs were greater than our own by comparison.

And to those of you who had relatives in the war, or who had family working the war effort here at home, I can't express enough appreciation for the sacrifices made. My grandfather was a pilot in WW1, and he was in the heavy machine tool industry supporting industrial manufacturing during WW2, his WW1 experiences caused him to support the WW2 effort because he saw first hand what "could have been".

Thank you Andy, it is a very interesting piece or history, we should never forget that we owe you our freedom. That being said, I'm not sure I understand the relation with the metric / imperial system? I understand the first part (the relation between the war, your sacrifice, and your under investment on industrial infrastructures), but not the second (the relation between that and the fact that the imperial system is only used in 3 countries)?

By the way, I was not mocking you for using the imperial system, it's just that the metric system is not just only in Europe, it is in fact used in almost every other country except 3.

 

[Johnny Fingers]

So much for my British Standard Whitworth (BSW) tools.

 

[agedhorse]

Thank you Andy, it is a very interesting piece or history, we should never forget that we owe you our freedom. That being said, I'm not sure I understand the relation with the metric / imperial system? I understand the first part (the relation between the war, your sacrifice, and your under investment on industrial infrastructures), but not the second (the relation between that and the fact that the imperial system is only used in 3 countries)?

By the way, I was not mocking you for using the imperial system, it's just that the metric system is not just only in Europe, it is in fact used in almost every other country except 3.

It’s because the US chose to use the financial resources to help rebuild Europe, Japan and other regions impacted by the war rather than use it to update our manufacturing infrastructure, including shifting to the metric system.

 

[OldogNewTrick]

JBL made a 14" pro audio driver at one time...

The 14NDL76 LF Drivers - B&C Speakers would make an interesting option for bass guitar

 

[pepj]

You could probably match up a single 12 to 200/250w output. Thats pushing it if you did the same with a 10, ime.
I wouldn't expect much more than jam volume so would double up.
Depends what expectations you have and who you play up with.

 

[tvbop]

U can talk about units of measurement all day... bottom line, metric is so simple, why the super technical US doesn't use it is laughable.

 

[gtirard]

U can talk about units of measurement all day... bottom line, metric is so simple, why the super technical US doesn't use it is laughable.

I dissagree. I too think the metric system is efficient, but there´s nothing to laugh at. Agedhorse was giving us a very informative historical perspective, thank you Andy.

The 2 things I like most on Talkbass are the sharing of knowledge and mutual respect.

 

[Wallace320]

I dissagree. I too think the metric system is efficient, but there´s nothing to laugh at. Agedhorse was giving us a very informative historical perspective, thank you Andy.

The 2 things I like most on Talkbass are the sharing of knowledge and mutual respect.

Completely

I live… not "that far" from you(even if I was pictured in Austria here left hand side)
I don't mind metric or anglosaxon measure

We use all the same components (and wrenches) from the Alps to the Indian Ocean
But then again, if you buy american basses, chances are bridges screws ain't metric

Anyway, traditionally, we consider inches not only for speakers, but for tv screens, car wheels, and sometimes cables too
Nevermind

It's like learning music, or a new language
it's fine

We're all in here for the music
everything else is just… sad

Au révoir mon ami
Claudio

 

[SteveCS]

Pretty sure Great Britain is still partially imperial.

Yes partially*. BUt for most legal purposes we are metric, or more correctly, S.I.

...
bottom line, metric is so simple, why the super technical US doesn't use it is laughable.

It is also true that the US is not entirely gallons, miles, pounds, feet and inches. At least in the electrical/electronic domain - for the units that really matter when it comes to amplifier design - we all use the base Amps and Seconds for current and time, along with the derived Volts, Watts, Ohms, Henries, Farads, Joules, Hertz and so on.

* Including travel/journey distances, driving speed and beer, to answer such pressing questions as How far is it to the pub? How long will it take me to drive there? How many pints can I down before having to walk home? and how long might that walk home take?

 

[agedhorse]

U can talk about units of measurement all day... bottom line, metric is so simple, why the super technical US doesn't use it is laughable.

Actually, it’s about as far from laughable as it gets.

Metric was accelerated throughout Europe and Asia because their infrastructure was destroyed during the war. It has to be rebuilt one way or another, so using the metric system cost was a much easier choice. The US did not have to rebuild, and instead used the money it could have used to change to the metric system to help the other regions rebuild their infrastructure.

 

[SteveCS]

...
using the metric system cost was a much easier choice. The US did not have to rebuild, and instead used the money it could have used to change to the metric system
...

Sometimes the imperative to change comes from the most unlikely of places:
Gimli Glider - Wikipedia

 

[HaphAsSard]

Actually, it’s about as far from laughable as it gets.

Metric was accelerated throughout Europe and Asia because their infrastructure was destroyed during the war. It has to be rebuilt one way or another, so using the metric system cost was a much easier choice. The US did not have to rebuild, and instead used the money it could have used to change to the metric system to help the other regions rebuild their infrastructure.

I don't know about Asia, but AFAIK by the late 1800s a good chunk of Europe was already metric. Apparently, a number of non-European countries worldwide started adopting the metric system in the 1920s. Your story provides a neat explanation why the US didn't convert in the postwar period, but does so in contrast with the rest of the world, part of which had actually been converted for a while, and leaves out why the US had 150 years to go metric before 1945 but failed to do so.

 

[FirewalZ]

Last several years, I’ve been a fan of 212 cabs over a 410 or 210. Still very portable, but can put out serious volume when needed. I have a GK mb212-ii combo and a Subway 212, great middle ground between small and large boxes.